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Topic: Star Trek: The Next Space Nine From Boldly Go Original Series  (Read 13992 times)

Lemon

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Because of this thread, I'm now watching TNG to go to sleep, and I just remembered what might be my favorite Star Trek fact...

Mick Fleetwood (of Fleetwood Mac) was a big fan of the show, and asked if he could be in an episode.

So they said sure.



His character is unnamed, has no lines, and is in stasis for most of the episode.
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« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 01:57:32 pm by Lemon »

Frank West

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He had to shave off his beard for the role, and eat some gross shit, but he said he was okay with that as long as they let him get transported.

The only word he had to say was "Food!" over and over. However, he could not remember his line. They had to make a cue card for him and also apparently several people were behind the camera miming eating food? This sounds unbelievable, in fact, I basically don't believe it because it makes no sense. However, brent spiner said it in some obscure panel that I can't find on google, and levar burton was there and just nodded and laughed along, plus the guy who designed what the enterprise computer panels looked like independently made a twitter post about it years later:

https://twitter.com/MikeOkuda/status/1280536273568985089

I don't know why they would both make the same lie years apart, so it somehow must be true?
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« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 01:40:45 am by Frank West »

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He had to shave off his beard for the role, and eat some gross shit, but he said he was okay with that as long as they let him get transported.

The only word he had to say was "Food!" over and over. However, he could not remember his line. They had to make a cue card for him and also apparently several people were behind the camera miming eating food? This sounds unbelievable, in fact, I basically don't believe it because it makes no sense. However, brent spiner said it in some obscure panel that I can't find on google, and levar burton was there and just nodded and laughed along, plus the guy who designed what the enterprise computer panels looked like independently made a twitter post about it years later:

https://twitter.com/MikeOkuda/status/1280536273568985089

I don't know why they would both make the same lie years apart, so it somehow must be true?
Frank West, December 08, 2020, 12:09:05 am
Frank! Your line was "FOOD!"

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'Member when Seven of Nine fought The Rock? That kicked ass

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Here is my big effortpost on Star Trek: Picard, a show you should under no circumstances pay money for.

TL;DR - It's basically the Mass Effect 3 script with the serial numbers filed off, and enough plot points yoinked out of place like Jenga blocks so you'll think there's a mystery to it.

I am also convinced that the writers of this show have not watched a single episode of Star Trek, by which I mean any of the TV series. They definitely watched the JJ Abrams trek, and probably the shitty TNG movies, but none of the shows.

The most obvious problem with the show is the plot, in which a large number of key plot points were clearly written in as 'TBD', and then they went back and figured out what the SHOCKING TWIST was later. It's a LOST-style mystery box in a mystery box that never really makes any sense. There are so many things that are just lazy cliches from other genres, that make no sense when transplanted into Star Trek.

I can't possibly summarize the whole thing with all its stupid misdirects and plot threads that go nowhere, but I'll try and chart a course through the important bits.

As a fun play-along-at-home game, I've highlighted the thrilling mysteries the show has to offer. See if you can tease out this tangled web of intrigue, and figure out which questions have non-stupid answers!

SO

We start with a dream sequence. It's about 20 years after Data died in Star Trek: Nemesis, and Picard is super duper sad about it. Note that the writers are hanging on something that happened in what is arguably the worst Star Trek movie as the emotional core of their show. Nemesis made less than Maid in Manhattan its opening weekend, but that's what the writers have chosen to build off as the emotional cornerstone of the show.

From there, we go to San Francisco of the future! A lady is in her apartment, making out with an alien who is just... a black dude, but he has eyes that blink sideways. He doesn't even get any bumpy forehead makeup. JUST THEN! Goons transport into the apartment and put a bag over the lady's head, killing the black guy with a throwing knife. The goons are yelling at each other, and they're scanning the lady with the bag on her head, saying how lucky they are that she hasn't "Activated" yet. Then, bagged lady gets "Activated", and starts suddenly displaying super Kung Fu skills, killing all the goons.

  • Mystery 1: Who are these goons? They're Romulans, but it's stupider than that.
  • Mystery 2: Who is this lady? Why does she have kung-fu powers? She's secretly a robo lady, and she doesn't know it.
  • Stupid Mystery: If these fuckers can transport down into somebody's apartment, why can't they transport somebody *out* of the apartment? Why do they have to go in with *throwing knives*? The goons never put, like, a device on her to help beam her out, but even if they did have to do that, wouldn't that be easier to do when she was asleep? Why THROWING KNIVES?

So, long story short, girl (name of Dahj) sees Picard talking on the future-tv, and she decides that she needs to go to him for help (why she thinks to do this is never clearly explained). She's actually a robo-clone made from Data's brain who has been programmed to think that she's human.

  • Mystery 3: Why was this robot lady programmed to think she's human? This one never makes sense. It's later stated that she was sent to Earth to "try and uncover a conspiracy in the Federation", but she doesn't seem to know that she's supposed to be investigating anything, she's just smooching a dude in her apartment, and she never seems to know anything or investigate anything. 

So, the goons show up again, and it turns out they're Romulans. They kill the *shit* out of Dahj, and then all suicide themselves in various ways before anybody can figure out why they're doing what they're trying to do. Thankfully, Dahj has an identical twin who basically fills in for her for the rest of the plot, so it doesn't really matter!

  • Mystery 4: Why are Romulans suddenly so hell-bent on killing robo lady?

This one is so stupid you'd never guess it in a million years, but it is in fact the center of the show's story.


The Romulans have a secret society in their government. No, not the Tal'Shiar, another secret society. There's a double-secret super-illuminati in Romulan society called the Jad'Vash, which somehow has never ever been brought up.

I have to wonder why the writers decided to take the Romulans, who already have a well-established KGB-style secret police, and decided to add a second entirely unrelated secret group that has nothing to do with the first.

My theory is that the writers only know about the Romulans because they watched the 2009 JJ Abrams movie, in which a Romulan dude was the villain. They decided they wanted a secret society in the Romulans that was doing something evil, but then later somebody (probably the intern who they made watch TNG for them) mentioned that the Romulans already had a secret society. Then they decided they didn't give a shit.

  • MYSTERY WHATEVER: Okay, so why does the double-secret Romulan illuminati want to kill this robot lady?!

Here's where we get double-stupid.

A long long time ago, the Romulans found this beacon on some random planet, which beams these horrifying images into your brain of what will happen if androids get too advanced. And by 'horrifying images', I mean random shutterstock clips. No, that's not a joke:


These horrifying images drive most of the people who touch the beacon to suicide, and the rest are fanatically devoted to wiping out all artificial life forms.

For those of you who don't play a ton of video games, this is literally just the beacon from Mass Effect, a game in which an ancient alien beacon beams a series of broken images into your brain to warn you about a coming race of evil machine-organisms.

Anyways, it turns out that the message from the beacon says that there are a bunch of super-AI space squids lurking outside of our reality, and if sufficiently advanced AIs receive the message, they should build this beacon whose blueprints are included in the message, and call the space squids to kill all organic life in the... solar system? Galaxy? Universe? this is never explained. This is because the robo-squids have decided that organic life and artificial life has no chance of coexisting, and will always inevitably destroy each other.

Yes, again, that is literally just the plot of Mass Effect 3.

THEY STOLE THE PLOT FROM MASS EFFECT 3. THAT'S THE BIG REVEAL TO ALL THE SECRETS. EVERYTHING WAS MASS EFFECT 3 ALL ALONG. SPECIFICALLY, THE MASS EFFECT THAT EVERYBODY HATED THE ENDING TO BECAUSE IT WAS STUPID, AND THE WHOLE MOTIVATION FOR THE EVIL SPACE SQUID ROBOTS WAS STUPID. THEY STOLE THAT PART.

Anyways, so there's a secret planet of androids, which I think were all 'derived' from Data like Dahj. the Romulan double-illuminati is trying to track down the planet so they can kill all the androids.  Picard, and Dahj's twin sister Soji, have to figure out how to get to the android planet and save them. And that's basically the plot of the show.

HERE IS A LIST OF SOME MORE STUPID THINGS THAT DON'T MAKE SENSE:

  • Remember that famous episode of TNG where Picard argues in court for the personhood of Data, on the grounds that if they are wrong, they risk creating a new slave race? Well, in Picard, the writers didn't watch that episode! So the Federation made a whole slave race of androids to work in the spaceship factories on Mars. They get hacked by the Romulans to blow up Mars to get the Federation to ban androids.

    But the spaceship factories the robo-slaves are working in are building rescue ships to save Romulans. Why they would make the androids blow up ships that were set to save their planet is never explained.

    Also also, the spaceship factories are run by, like, stereotypical blue-collar construction workers? I get the feeling that spaceship construction is pretty technical stuff, but they wanted to have, like, uneducated racist construction workers to be mean to the slave robots?

    I don't even think that the writers of the show realize that they made a slave race of workers (probably 'cause they didn't watch the Star Trek episode where they talk about that).
  • There's a Romulan ninja who joins Picard. He's just a ninja. He says cool ninja things and cuts people's heads off.
  • The Romulan fleet is showing up to kill the androids, and the writers clearly couldn't figure out a way for Picard and his shitty little ship to defeat the Romulan fleet, so they fucking invent a magical-space-dildo-wand that can do anything, and it makes a giant holographic fleet appear. It looks so much like a sex toy that imgur rejected the original upload and I had to re-crop the image.



  • In the last episode, turns out Data is alive, and living in six USB sticks. He says hi to Picard, and then asks to die.
  • At the very end, Picard dies of a brain tumor, but then they put his consciousness into an identical robot body, which they say has been specifically programmed to simulate aging at a normal rate, and die in another 20 years. Bringing somebody back from the dead in a highly technologically advanced but basically identical body is also STOLEN FROM MASS EFFECT.

There is still so much more stuff. There's Picard's drug-addicted gun toting loner friend, there are the weird incest-sibling Romulan villains, there's the GORY EYEBALL REMOVAL TORTURE SCENE that starts episode 5.

I am gonna say, sometimes trashy stupid sci-fi TV that doesn't make a whole lot of sense is fun, but please do not give CBS any more money for shit like this. You just can't repackage your shitty Mass Effect fanfic as Star Trek and expect it to work.


EDIT: Also, I think I just had a realization why the hack writers decided to make the Romulans super racist against robots. In the JJ Abrams movie, Romulus gets destroyed, so now the Romulans are, like, nomad people. In spite of the fact that the Romulan Star Empire is fucking *huge* in Star Trek, and so presumably the Romulans have hundreds/thousands of other planets to live on, it reminded somebody of the Quarians from Mass Effect, and the Quarians are racist against robots because they accidentally created the Geth, a race of machines who kicked them off their planet and made them nomads.
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Also, I just watched the episode where Beverly Crusher has sex with a ghost. That's a top five episode for me.
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I watched three episodes that were specifically recommended (S2E9, S3E21, S4E21) and they were all good. I also watched a non-recommended one (S3E2) and it was okay. I'm too lazy to sort my thought beyond that into a coherent post, but here's the unfiltered notes i wrote while watching the episodes if you're interested.

Thinking about the star treks as "american doctor who" helps, and now I understand star trek. I don't see why so many people are so rabidly into it, but different strokes and all that. It's decent entertainment. Data is good.

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I think the Doctor Who comparison is also good for understanding why so many people were into it. It's not that it's so consistently good, but it's been so consistently present.

Star Trek has been coming out for a while. The original Star Trek was 1966-1969, with an animated series from 1972-1973 and then movies in 1979, 1982, 1984, and 1986. Movies kept coming out even after Star Trek went back to making shows, which were produced in a constant run from 1987, when The Next Generation began, all the way through Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and ending with the end of Enterprise (aka, the one no one talks about) in 2005. During that period, six more Star Trek movies came out, and there was another four-year dry spell before the Abrams Star Trek movies started up in 2009.

Star Trek has never had quite the same spectacle as Star Wars, but the one thing it has been is extremely, constantly present. Even when new TV episodes weren't coming out, reruns were still being aired. I was first really introduced to Star Trek by reruns of TNG in the early 00's even though that show had ended back in 1994. Every nerd who has grown up in the US the last fifty four years has probably watched Star Trek episodes growing up and has childhood memories associated with it.

So in that sense, it is a lot like Doctor Who--it's not that it's good, it's that it's utterly inescapable.
auaurorau

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I think it's more that people like different things at different levels. Which is fine. Everyone's fine.
auaurorau

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Here's my take:

I don't think that it's *all* nostalgia. It probably does play some role for me personally, but my girlfriend likes TNG about as much as I do, and she only first saw Star Trek when she was in college.

Furthermore, the series I watched the most growing up was probably Voyager, and let me tell you, going back and rewatching Voyager, I have no rose-tinted glasses. Voyager is not very good.

Rewatching TNG, I'm amazed at how many episodes stuck with me because they have a great premise, or a really strong character moment, or something else that is fun and memorable about them.

Unlike so much other sci-fi, there are tons and tons of episodes where nobody shoots a phaser at anything, and nothing blows up, and nobody does kung-fu. People talk through their problems, and try to work to a moral and peaceful solution to their issues. I think that alone makes it very novel in the modern sci-fi landscape.

The show doesn't really even have a villain. Heck, most episodes don't even have a villain. Star Trek TNG is largely a show about people acting in good faith to solve problems. When there is character conflict, it comes from the personal philosophies and life experiences of those characters, not contrived misunderstandings.

auaurorau, you mention that Data is a good boy? The secret to TNG is that they're all good boys.

Deep Space Nine is an excellent companion piece to TNG because it explores what kinds of problems a peaceful humanist society that has eliminated poverty, hunger, and definitely made inroads on general human prejudice and xenophobia would still encounter. It tackles a different set of problems, and often a much harder set of problems, but with the same skillful writing, and characters with a genuine commitment to seeking justice.

When people say they "love Star Trek", they usually mean they love TNG and DS9, and I will go to bat for those two shows any day of the week.
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It's been a few years since I've watched it, but when Doctor Who is good, it's really good.
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He had to shave off his beard for the role, and eat some gross shit, but he said he was okay with that as long as they let him get transported.

The only word he had to say was "Food!" over and over. However, he could not remember his line. They had to make a cue card for him and also apparently several people were behind the camera miming eating food? This sounds unbelievable, in fact, I basically don't believe it because it makes no sense. However, brent spiner said it in some obscure panel that I can't find on google, and levar burton was there and just nodded and laughed along, plus the guy who designed what the enterprise computer panels looked like independently made a twitter post about it years later:

https://twitter.com/MikeOkuda/status/1280536273568985089

I don't know why they would both make the same lie years apart, so it somehow must be true?
Frank West, December 08, 2020, 12:09:05 am

I had this panel saved from forever ago. Brent Spiner telling this story starts at about 3:25, but the other stories they tell are also good.

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