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May 15, 2021, 09:21:21 am

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Topic: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls  (Read 943 times)

EYE OF ZA

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354: This One Is For My Gull Girls #30
I think the thing to understand is this is basically "what your fursona's theme would be" without the fursona.

If you're into witchcore, it's because you're not a furry, but if you were, your fursona would be a witch.
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354: This One Is For My Gull Girls #31
Same tbh. Had a strong impulse last night to write a "okay i KNOW cripplepunk sounds bad but at least in my sensible corners of the internet it mostly just describes actual disabled people working their assistive devices into their fashion instead of having a Look and also an ugly boring cane they hate so i feel like it's more quote unquote valid than a lot of shit on here" comment, but then had a moment of self-reflection and went to lie down for a bit.
jim and the mammograms, May 10, 2021, 10:37:28 am

I mean there's a lot of stuff on the F Plus that's perfectly valid, it's just a) not something that should be shared on the internet, b) done in a stupid and/or horrible way, c) very funny to outsiders, or d) some combination of the three. 

One of the reasons I like this podcast is because its mockery is mostly done in a non-mean, non-bullying way. It's just kind of reacting in funny ways to extremely weird shit, without the judgment and shittiness of stuff like cringe videos or kiwifarms. Like, it's not exactly nice, but it rarely feels like they're attacking anyone for being extremely weird.

ETA:
I think the thing to understand is this is basically "what your fursona's theme would be" without the fursona.

If you're into witchcore, it's because you're not a furry, but if you were, your fursona would be a witch.
EYE OF ZA, May 10, 2021, 11:31:46 am

I feel like these days there's a LOT of crossover and you probably have like witchcore furries and cottagecore furries and all. I can only hope that furry cons occasionally have problems when the goblincores and the chaotic academics run into each other and start snapping at each other in preparation for an aesthetic rumble.
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« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 01:50:31 pm by Puppy Time »

jim and the mammograms

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354: This One Is For My Gull Girls #32
Same tbh. Had a strong impulse last night to write a "okay i KNOW cripplepunk sounds bad but at least in my sensible corners of the internet it mostly just describes actual disabled people working their assistive devices into their fashion instead of having a Look and also an ugly boring cane they hate so i feel like it's more quote unquote valid than a lot of shit on here" comment, but then had a moment of self-reflection and went to lie down for a bit.
jim and the mammograms, May 10, 2021, 10:37:28 am

I mean there's a lot of stuff on the F Plus that's perfectly valid, it's just a) not something that should be shared on the internet, b) done in a stupid and/or horrible way, c) very funny to outsiders, or d) some combination of the three. 

One of the reasons I like this podcast is because its mockery is mostly done in a non-mean, non-bullying way. It's just kind of reacting in funny ways to extremely weird shit, without the judgment and shittiness of stuff like cringe videos or kiwifarms. Like, it's not exactly nice, but it rarely feels like they're attacking anyone for being extremely weird.
Puppy Time, May 10, 2021, 01:48:19 pm

Oh, yeah, that's one of the things that initially drew me in. Like, the vibe of the podcast is very similar to me when I think back on my teenage magick stage, as an easy example, which is a relatively gentle "ha ha ha this is stupid" and just sort of leaving it at that. Because, you know, ha ha ha, it was pretty stupid that I got upset at my aunt because my Christmas card said "merry Christmas!" instead of "blessed Yule!" but at the same time, it's not really hurting anyone beyond me when I think back and go "oh fuck's sake." Just, like, a chill look at weird internet communities without any real mean-spirited stuff (with the occasional "oh FUCK no" when it comes to stuff that's doing legit harm like advising people not to go to doctors because you can just make a potion instead.)

I just felt the need to point the cripplepunk thing out because I spend way too much time online and divorced of context, yeah, it sounds super fucked up, but it's way less fucked up than it absolutely could be.

ETA:
I think the thing to understand is this is basically "what your fursona's theme would be" without the fursona.

If you're into witchcore, it's because you're not a furry, but if you were, your fursona would be a witch.
EYE OF ZA, May 10, 2021, 11:31:46 am

I feel like these days there's a LOT of crossover and you probably have like witchcore furries and cottagecore furries and all. I can only hope that furry cons occasionally have problems when the goblincores and the chaotic academics run into each other and start snapping at each other in preparation for an aesthetic rumble.

I'm not on the furry side of things and have successfully ignored any aesthetic rumbles, but there is the whole goblincore antisemitism debate, so there's that?

Smallest Sasquatch

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354: This One Is For My Gull Girls #33
Having lived through the time when a bunch of kids were making up niche genders, I'm a lot more forgiving of kids making up niche aesthetic subcultures, even if their apparent differences are on the level of, "No, that one's 'eggshell,' this one's 'off white.'"
Puppy Time, May 09, 2021, 10:48:26 pm

Oh boy, the niche genders thing is still going on, and seems like it's maybe even having a revival in the past year or so.  I have a whole other doc about the lgbta wiki's xenogenders (there are currently 2,240 of them) and asexual sexual orientations (252, not counting the "fluid" labels).  Not sure if I should submit that one.  It's so silly and out-there that I can't even get offended by it, but others might find it extremely obnoxious.

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354: This One Is For My Gull Girls #34
I'm not on the furry side of things and have successfully ignored any aesthetic rumbles, but there is the whole goblincore antisemitism debate, so there's that?
jim and the mammograms, May 10, 2021, 05:24:41 pm
There is a sort of coherent argument about the origins of goblin folklore c.f. antisemitism, so in that very tumblr way that means that 100% of the time if you include goblins in something you're an evil person because there's absolutely no way it could be anything but the worst version of itself.
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354: This One Is For My Gull Girls #35
Like, I gotta admit that goblincore is one of the ones I know fairly well. I don't really engage with the tumblr side of things/The Discourse and have no strong opinions about how it interacts with other aesthetics but like, I mean

Goblincore is basically a bunch of trans women who like D&D and collecting buttons in mason jars; being happy when you see snails in the garden; going out into the dark forest and sinking your feet down in the mud. There's something kinda liberatory about taking something traditionally monstrous and making it cute, you know? It seems to be almost entirely queer folks, and like, very trans. When the world tells you that you're a monster, it kinda feels like spitting it back in their face.
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354: This One Is For My Gull Girls #36
It seems to be almost entirely queer folks, and like, very trans. When the world tells you that you're a monster, it kinda feels like spitting it back in their face.
Muffinator, May 10, 2021, 07:22:41 pm

Honestly this is like 95% of Aesthetic stuff IME

though... that may just be the areas I hang out in, which are full of weird people with various Gender Things going on.   I always have to remember that Selection Bias exists.
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354: This One Is For My Gull Girls #37
We need to bring back the "Rob Zombie Aesthetic."
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354: This One Is For My Gull Girls #38
Like, I gotta admit that goblincore is one of the ones I know fairly well. I don't really engage with the tumblr side of things/The Discourse and have no strong opinions about how it interacts with other aesthetics but like, I mean
Muffinator, May 10, 2021, 07:22:41 pm

Yeah, the part that really stuck out to me in the "Goblincore is anti-Semitic maybe?" quote was the part about people wanting to rename it "Gremlincore" as a less derogatory alternative because it feels like such a case of mistaking the map for the territory. Like, I can see a case being made to connect Goblins as portrayed in certain forms of media as being derived from anti-Semitic stereotypes, but if you're following that reasoning to its logical conclusion then the word "Goblin" isn't the aspect of Goblincore you should be taking issue with...

And besides, Gremlincore should be saved for an aesthetic that's all about sabotaging WWII-era aircraft.

Goblincore is basically a bunch of trans women who like D&D and collecting buttons in mason jars; being happy when you see snails in the garden; going out into the dark forest and sinking your feet down in the mud. There's something kinda liberatory about taking something traditionally monstrous and making it cute, you know? It seems to be almost entirely queer folks, and like, very trans. When the world tells you that you're a monster, it kinda feels like spitting it back in their face.
Muffinator, May 10, 2021, 07:22:41 pm

That actually reminds me a lot of these two articles by James Mendez Hodes discussing the history of Orcs in fantasy fiction and RPGs and its roots in Orientalism and colonialism, specifically the point where he discusses how playing Orc characters is actually something that appeals to a decent chunk of POC players as an act of reclamation against the stereotypes that spawned them.

Also: I think about the only thing in this episode I thought was potentially concerning in this episode was the way some of the subject matter integrated mental health issues as a building block. It's part of a larger concern I've developed about the way people in some of the newer generations commiserate about things like anxiety and depression and whether it crosses the line from supportive to enabling. I don't think it's an actively malicious thing or a fault of the wiki itself though, just a case that when you get people into a group that's united by a common mental health issues, they're not necessarily going to create an environment conducive to dealing with that issue (If any of that makes sense).
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354: This One Is For My Gull Girls #39
This is a really interesting conversation! It's making me realize that I'm whatever the next step down in interest level is from normcore (borecore?), but y'know.

God, I wish I was a safety goth.
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354: This One Is For My Gull Girls #40
I like how this is TV Tropes for vibes.
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354: This One Is For My Gull Girls #41
Yeah, the part that really stuck out to me in the "Goblincore is anti-Semitic maybe?" quote was the part about people wanting to rename it "Gremlincore" as a less derogatory alternative because it feels like such a case of mistaking the map for the territory. Like, I can see a case being made to connect Goblins as portrayed in certain forms of media as being derived from anti-Semitic stereotypes, but if you're following that reasoning to its logical conclusion then the word "Goblin" isn't the aspect of Goblincore you should be taking issue with...KingKalamari, May 10, 2021, 10:43:39 pm

I think a lot of the issue is just that there are a lot of dogwhistle pitfalls that it's fairly reasonable most people wouldn't know about, but which might still cause some level of harm, and it can be easier and safer to just go, "Okay, someone who knows more than me said this is bad, let's avoid it," instead of spending time and energy thoroughly researching whether each individual point of contention is or is not valid. Like, that's time and energy you could be spending hanging out with snails and making them tiny hats.

It's a precarious balance to strike, especially given that if you don't take the safe route (especially if you offer open criticism) you run the risk of getting the attention of people who feel that targeted harassment over extremely niche shit is praxis.

Also: I think about the only thing in this episode I thought was potentially concerning in this episode was the way some of the subject matter integrated mental health issues as a building block. It's part of a larger concern I've developed about the way people in some of the newer generations commiserate about things like anxiety and depression and whether it crosses the line from supportive to enabling. I don't think it's an actively malicious thing or a fault of the wiki itself though, just a case that when you get people into a group that's united by a common mental health issues, they're not necessarily going to create an environment conducive to dealing with that issue (If any of that makes sense).

Apparently this is a big issue in things like Borderline Personality Disorder, where even if you're in treatment it's a terrible idea to be part of a group of people with the same issue, because everyone just ends up constantly triggering each other inadvertently. (It's probably a bad idea for pretty much any personality disorder, really, because a big aspect of those is an incorrect set of core assumptions about reality, which need to not be reinforced.)

There are plenty of mental health disorders that benefit greatly from a supportive group; the main issue is that mental health treatment has too many hurdles for a lot of people to clear, so it can be a coin toss of whether you're getting the equivalent of Sound Medical Advice from someone who got advice from a doctor, or "put crocodile dung and honey on it and bandage it, that'll fix your cancer right up!" (With the added issue that a lot of harmful stuff really does feel good in the moment, and the healthy stuff can feel like shit, so you can't even rely on intuition. Anyone who claims exercising feels good is a dirty, dirty liar.)
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354: This One Is For My Gull Girls #42
Soooo does this mean I can keep my old top hat or no? cause I gotta admit I went deep down the steampunk rabbit hole, though the Leviathan series from Scott Westerfeld does lean more dieselpunk it pointed me in that direction for a while.

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354: This One Is For My Gull Girls #43
Soooo does this mean I can keep my old top hat or no? cause I gotta admit I went deep down the steampunk rabbit hole, though the Leviathan series from Scott Westerfeld does lean more dieselpunk it pointed me in that direction for a while.
Wolley74, May 12, 2021, 05:48:05 am
No.
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