Snakes In The Ball Pit => How I choose to spend my time => Movies => Topic started by: eldritchhat on January 19, 2016, 11:46:32 am
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: eldritchhat on January 19, 2016, 11:46:32 am
"I found out I was actually a Nazi. My family were German. What can I say? I understand Hitler … I sympathize with him a bit.” -Lars Von Trier
If you know what this mess is all about, and love watching Kirsten Dunst's reaction to it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LayW8aq4GLw), then this is the right thread for you.
We can discuss our interpretations of the work of David Lynch and Ingmar Bergman, or just post links to the weird and hilarious shit these people make:
like this
Either way, I was hankering for a thread like this, so I might as well start it.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: Agent (gobble, gobble) Coop on January 19, 2016, 12:09:58 pm
"I found out I was actually a Nazi. My family were German. What can I say? I understand Hitler … I sympathize with him a bit.” -Lars Von Trier
If you know what this mess is all about, and love watching Kirsten Dunst's reaction to it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LayW8aq4GLw), then this is the right thread for you.
We can discuss our interpretations of the work of David Lynch and Ingmar Bergman, or just post links to the weird and hilarious shit these people make:
like this
Either way, I was hankering for a thread like this, so I might as well start it. eldritchhat, January 19, 2016, 11:46:32 am
Consider me up in this thread like my boy Kris Klien is up in Solaris
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: montrith on January 19, 2016, 01:14:17 pm
Ever seen L'Âge d'Or? That's some weird shit going on there. Not surprising since Salvador Dali was involved.
I'm not sure what kind of artsy films you're looking for, but I personally have a thing for short, surreal films. I especially like animations and films that combine music with picture (no dialogue necessary). Finnish TV used to show a lot of weird shit from former Soviet Block countries, especially Poland, so that might have influenced my tastes somewhat. Here's a good resource for some titles of Polish films, you can actually find many of the shorter ones on Youtube. Warning! Probably horribly bleak and weird.
Here's one that I think has an interesting ending, if any of you wants to offer an interpretation.
Here's The Cathedral, based on a short story by Jacek Dukaj, and it just looks damn nice. Also check out Fallen Art by the same director if you want to see something more fucked up.
I'm not sure if this counts as an "art" film, but here's Aleksandr Petrov's adaptation of Hemingway's Old Man and the Sea, done using paint-on-glass technique.
Sorry if this is not what you were looking for, but the Polish ones should at least stir up some interesting conversations, if you ever manage to get anyone to sit through them.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: Boots Raingear on January 19, 2016, 02:44:45 pm
JODOROWSKY
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: NutshellGulag on January 19, 2016, 03:19:30 pm
I like art films. The ones that came to mind right away were "Celine and Julie Go Boating", "The Reflecting Skin", and "Něco z Alenky". While I have seen and enjoyed? been moved by? Lars Von Trier's works before, (I don't know if you can use the word "enjoy when you're talking about something like "Breaking the Waves"), the man himself does not seem like someone I'd particularly like to have dinner with. Is David Lynch still arty or is he too mainstream now? How about Cronenberg?
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: eldritchhat on January 19, 2016, 04:52:55 pm
Thank you Montrith, once again you are the paramount example for us all. I probably should've called this "experimental films and blah blah blah," but Que sera sera. Your contributions are exactly what I am looking for.
YES! Jodorowsky is a goddamn god, and I applaud you for being the first one to mention him. Concerning him and David Lynch, have you ever seen the documentary about his amazing ideas for a Dune movie? It's a shame on the human race that he was never able to make it.
I like art films. The ones that came to mind right away were "Celine and Julie Go Boating", "The Reflecting Skin", and "Něco z Alenky". While I have seen and enjoyed? been moved by? Lars Von Trier's works before, (I don't know if you can use the word "enjoy when you're talking about something like "Breaking the Waves"), the man himself does not seem like someone I'd particularly like to have dinner with. Is David Lynch still arty or is he too mainstream now? How about Cronenberg? NutshellGulag, January 19, 2016, 03:19:30 pm
Lars Von Trier is a masterful film maker, I actually watched Anti-christ on Christmas eve last year, and Melancholia a few days after. I can also entirely agree that I would not want to talk to him for more than a few seconds on anything other than film.
David Lynch is definitely arty, and anyone who says otherwise can suck a leaky faucet. I love Twin Peaks, Elephant Man, Eraserhead, and all of his shorts, like this one:
Many artists will live and die, but Cronenberg is forever, remember that nutshell. Besides, who can not admire the man that made Jeff Goldbloom even creepier.
Back to montrith, Stairs was great, I will need to check out other creations by that artist. While obviously not the same thing, it reminded me a bunch of Aardman's stranger shorts:
If I had to give a quick interpretation of Stairs, and bear in mind that I have no formal training in film theory, I would say that it is a very Nietzschean idea portrayed here, a very harsh nihilistic truth portrayed through a medium generally regarded as fantastic and childish (hi Portaxx!). It is about the nature of life's intricacies, which slowly develop as one grows older, and the fact that there are infinite paths that, even if you choose to stick to one, the most you can hope for is a death at the top, so you can become another step on the path of knowledge. It is a very cynical representation of the ultimate effect of 'active' nihilism.
Hope this helps! :D
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: CormansInferno on January 19, 2016, 05:33:19 pm
I've had the enourmous good fortune to live near The Cinefamily, LA's greatest arthouse. While they've lost a bit of momentum (due to a lot of their programmers moving on to other things), I estimate I've seen at least 3500-4000 movies/pieces of visual media there. I have a couple people to recommend, but I'll start with Sion Sono.
I am extremely glad that Sono has become a giant, commercially-successful director in Japan, because his movies are straight out of the same gonzo art playbook that Jodorowsky and Lynch consult. Sono was originally a student at one of Japan's most prestigious art schools, then saw The Gore Gore Girls and Blood Feast and decided he should spend his entire career making high-minded trashploitation. Fans of extreme Japanese cinema might remember his first feature, Suicide Circle, or at least the scene from it where a line of Japanese schoolgirls hold hands and jump into the path of an oncoming subway. And while all his movies are at least worth a look, The HATE Trilogy is where he started reaching his true artistic heights. It all started when he conceived Love Exposure a 6 hour Valentine to his then-current girlfriend, the raw cut of which was taken from him by distributors and chopped down to 4 hours. This is not a navel-gazing European realism film, the 10-act plot crackles with the energy of binge-watching four episodes of an intense hour-long drama. Even more impressive is that every act shifts to a different genre but all manages to stay in one coherent universe, telling the story of Yu, an eternally suffering Japanese Catholic, and Yoko, a juvenile delinquent obsessed with Jesus. The result was a movie that became the #1 box office hit for 6 months in Japan.
Unfortunately, during the production of Love Exposure, the girlfriend Sono made it for broke up with him and drove him into a depressive funk that inspired the next 2 films in the trilogy, Coldfish and Guilty of Romance, two bleak, nihilistic looks at human sexuality and relationships. Coldfish, about the horrors of male sexuality, follows a businessman whose family becomes romantically entwined with an aquarium store owner/serial killer (apparently based on a real Japanese serial killer who was a dog breeder). In Guilty of Romance, the dark side of female sexuality is explored via a lonely housewife who becomes obsessed with the decadence and perversion of her local red-light district as her novellist husband starts growing distant from her. While he was making the latter, Sono and the lead actress fell in love and married shortly afterward.
But while those are three of his greatest films, everything he's done is at least worth a look. I'd also recommend Love & Peace, a delightful and heartwarming mash-up of Miracle on 34th Street and Gamera, Why Don't You Play in Hell?, his love letter to film where a crew of movie geeks get to film a real Yakuza battle to the death in 35 mm, and Ex-Te, his pisstake on mid-Aughts Japanese ghost movies featuring possessed hair extensions and Chiaki Kuriyama (Go Go Yubari from Kill Bill).
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: EYE OF ZA on January 19, 2016, 06:18:59 pm
Here's one that I think has an interesting ending, if any of you wants to offer an interpretation.
My interpretation: The sandy expanse at the beginning is raw possibility, out of which comes a sign that seems to give us a purpose. Stairs, that way? Guess we need to go that way. We take the purpose and pursue it, even as we lose track of what we were doing before (as the angles of the shots get stranger and we can no longer walk straight forward). We pursue the purpose, giving it our all until we can't give any more. What the ending reveals is that what seemed like a grand purpose was all man-made, all created by other people who also thought they were pursuing the same purpose.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: eldritchhat on January 19, 2016, 06:41:46 pm
Here's one that I think has an interesting ending, if any of you wants to offer an interpretation.
My interpretation: The sandy expanse at the beginning is raw possibility, out of which comes a sign that seems to give us a purpose. Stairs, that way? Guess we need to go that way. We take the purpose and pursue it, even as we lose track of what we were doing before (as the angles of the shots get stranger and we can no longer walk straight forward). We pursue the purpose, giving it our all until we can't give any more. What the ending reveals is that what seemed like a grand purpose was all man-made, all created by other people who also thought they were pursuing the same purpose. EYE OF ZA, January 19, 2016, 06:18:59 pm
Ah, but that's the thing, if we refuse to pursue purpose whatsoever, then we are what Nietzsche refers to as 'passive' nihilists. Even if the increment is ultimately insignificant in the grand scheme, you are still creating something by an increment, which is more than what you could say for the passive person. Perhaps we should interpret this film as realism represented through surrealism, the veneer of our personal ideologies washed away. As Slavoj Zizek said, the glasses should be the rose color of ideology, and when we take them off, we should see critique of ideology. But, we should also consider Lacan's idea of the 'real,' where the very act of putting the glasses on legitimizes our meaningless existence, as well as stands in as the obstacle between us and concrete legitimization.
But, I think the figure was featureless for a reason, so the further I go into pontification, the farther I am from what is actually present within the film.
Anyhow, let me add another film on the barby while we're at it. Speaking of animation, I love Don Hertzfeldt, even if he was popular enough to make a Simpsons intro:
I have not yet seen his latest movie, World of Tomorrow, but I still love going back and watching his Oscar-winning short film:
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: Ambious on January 20, 2016, 04:06:04 am
If you ever get the chance to watch Melancholia (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1527186/)- don't! There's a thin line between artsy, pretentious and just plain bad - and this film is so beyond this line it's literally torture to watch.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: eldritchhat on January 20, 2016, 04:14:51 am
If you ever get the chance to watch Melancholia (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1527186/)- don't! There's a thin line between artsy, pretentious and just plain bad - and this film is so beyond this line it's figuratively torture to watch. Ambious, January 20, 2016, 04:06:04 am
I actually quite liked the film, but I can understand why someone might not. If you don't mind, Ambious, could you please tell us why it was so deplorable?
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: Ambious on January 20, 2016, 04:41:15 am
If you ever get the chance to watch Melancholia (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1527186/)- don't! There's a thin line between artsy, pretentious and just plain bad - and this film is so beyond this line it's figuratively torture to watch. Ambious, January 20, 2016, 04:06:04 am
I actually quite liked the film, but I can understand why someone might not. If you don't mind, Ambious, could you please tell us why it was so deplorable? eldritchhat, January 20, 2016, 04:14:51 am
It could just be me - or perhaps I had a bad viewing experience - but I just couldn't follow it. I understand it's meant to be a metaphor, but it went too far in that I couldn't pinpoint actual plot points and it was just too slow and inconsistent to process which in turn made it boring and long as hell. Again - the 'art' behind the film may be good, but I was so unable to actually even remotely connect to anything I wasn't even able to try and appreciate anything else.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: eldritchhat on January 20, 2016, 05:11:05 am
If you ever get the chance to watch Melancholia (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1527186/)- don't! There's a thin line between artsy, pretentious and just plain bad - and this film is so beyond this line it's figuratively torture to watch. Ambious, January 20, 2016, 04:06:04 am
I actually quite liked the film, but I can understand why someone might not. If you don't mind, Ambious, could you please tell us why it was so deplorable? eldritchhat, January 20, 2016, 04:14:51 am
It could just be me - or perhaps I had a bad viewing experience - but I just couldn't follow it. I understand it's meant to be a metaphor, but it went too far in that I couldn't pinpoint actual plot points and it was just too slow and inconsistent to process which in turn made it boring and long as hell. Again - the 'art' behind the film may be good, but I was so unable to actually even remotely connect to anything I wasn't even able to try and appreciate anything else. Ambious, January 20, 2016, 04:41:15 am
I get that. Even though I like the film, it does feel somewhat meandering, in the second part at least. However, what may be a detractor for you, that being that it was basically just the filmmaker wallowing in his own depression, was what made the movie for me. I have a history of depression, and I believe that Kirsten Dunst's performance alone gives me great incentive to watch, and allows me to personally identify with her. Ultimately, the movie was about the relationship between the two sisters, which can be great if you have a personal investment in both those characters, but if either falls flat for you, then the movie just kinda falls apart.
Anyway, that film is definitely not for everyone, as most Lars Von Trier films aren't. If anyone wants to watch another movie about the relationship between a group of characters, one that has a little bit more humor and action to it, then I would recommend Tangerine (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3824458/). You've most likely heard about it as the movie that was shot entirely on an iPhone, but I would say the more interesting aspect of the film, to me, is that the majority of the cast is made up of trans women. You can watch it streamed on Netflix, and it's worth the watch, if you don't mind seeing an Armenian give someone a blow job, from the back seat of a taxi, while at the car wash.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: eldritchhat on January 20, 2016, 04:38:35 pm
I woke up at 4:30 this morning and couldn't fall back to sleep, so I watched the movie Montrith recommended: L'Âge d'Or
I definitely recommend that you guys see it, as I feel like its right up our perspective alleys, so I'll post it here so you all can watch and maybe talk about it.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: CormansInferno on January 20, 2016, 05:12:21 pm
My next recommendation is to check out the films of Sky-David. In the mid-70s, a former soldier wandered around California doing some soul searching after his had been obliterated by the nightmares of Vietnam and wound up at CalArts. After learning animation over the course of the next 3 years, he renamed himself Sky-David and went on to create a number of short films that wordlessly drift through hallucinatory landscapes. The one exception is Field of Green, an antiwar piece he made to discourage Army recruitment in the Bush II years, which animates entries from his war journals. Even if you've never seen an S-D short, you might've seen his art style. His 2nd student film, Luma Nocturna, was licensed by Ken Russell and used in the enlightenment/reality folding in on itself sequences from Altered States; and based off the strength of that he was hired to do the hallucinatory transitions for the Randy Quaid horror vehicle Dreamscape. It can be kind of hard to track down his work, but here's a brief sample:
Not a valid vimeo URL
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: NutshellGulag on January 20, 2016, 07:53:16 pm
I've found this website: http://366weirdmovies.com/ (http://366weirdmovies.com/) to be a pretty good resource for finding obscure, weird, arty movies. I've seen a lot of the movies on the list, but it's fun to read the reviews and watch the shorts.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: eldritchhat on January 21, 2016, 08:53:14 am
I've found this website: http://366weirdmovies.com/ (http://366weirdmovies.com/) to be a pretty good resource for finding obscure, weird, arty movies. I've seen a lot of the movies on the list, but it's fun to read the reviews and watch the shorts. NutshellGulag, January 20, 2016, 07:53:16 pm
Thanks Nutshell, I've added that to my bookmarks, and as a thank you I will provide a link as well: http://www.ubu.com/film/ (http://www.ubu.com/film/) If you've never heard of UbuWeb, it's an online resource for various avant-garde art and artists, and outside of film, they have contemporary writing, poetry, and avant-garde accordian music. I believe the site was made by the guy who came up with the whole uncreative writing thing, and its short collection is pretty impressive.
Also, Don Hertzfeldt update: World of Tomorrow just went up on Netflix today, so I'm watching the hell out of that.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: CormansInferno on January 21, 2016, 04:40:19 pm
The next art weirdo on my list to recommend is Nobuhiko Obayashi. He's primarily known in America for his psychedelic haunted house freakout (and Criterion-approved classic) Hausu, but Obayashi's career stretches back to the 50s. Hausu was Obayashi's first feature, but he'd started out making experimental art films in college and became a Ridley Scott-level prolific TV commercial director to continue funding experiemental shorts. Obayashi was such a rabid fan of Hollywood movies that he did something almost unheard of: he flew to Hollywood on his own dime and started entering his shorts in local film festivals. While in Los Angeles, he became lifelong friends with Charles Bronson. Bronson was not yet the gigantic megastar he would become, but he was an extremely recognizable face in American movies. So when Bronson needed some cash, Obayashi suggested he shoot some ads in Japan to capitalize on the country's obsession with Hollywood actors. And thus started the long and storied tradition of American celebrities starring in Japanese commercials for some side cash. So if you've ever enjoyed Arnold Schwarzenegger screaming and firing lighting bolts from his eyes to promote a Japanese energy drink, you have Obayashi and Bronson to thank.
After toiling in the advertising salt mines for twoish decades, Toho finally gave Obayashi the funding for Hausu. The movie's plot was based on a story Obayashi's 7-year-old daughter had written after a terrible nightmare, and also included allusions to then-current urban legends about people lurking deep in the Japanese countryside who had resorted to cannibalism when the Japanese countryside was in full-on Grave of the Fireflies time. A group of schoolgirls encouter a witch in a creaky old house, psychedelic supernatural horror ensues. To make the setting more bizarre and otherworldly, Obayashi declined to use Toho's famed effects department and instead hired fellow experimental video artists from the circuit he'd been touring for the past 2 decades. While Hausu is Obayashi's crowning achievement, his other work also plays with avant garde film techniques (albeit not to the same degree as Hausu), where the central character is usually a teenage girl in a coming-of-age story.
Not a valid vimeo URL
Obayashi also helmed a very, very loose adaptation of the seminal horror manga The Drifting Classroom. What it lacks in faithfulness in to the source material, it makes up for gonzo wackiness. A classroom of "International students" (whose ages range from 6-35) are forced to survive after being transported to the Japan of the far future, a desert wasteland populated by giant maneating lobster-cockroaches.
Not a valid vimeo URL
Though he's 93 years old, Obayashi is still cranking out movies. And thankfully, they're still pretty great. Last year, he released Seven Weeks, one of his most complex and nuanced films yet. Using the framework of a family coming together to remember the death of a 93-year-old relative, it explores the whole of 20th Century Japan's history, with some biting commentary thrown in about wartime atrocities and the government's ties to the nuclear industry (I missed seeing Casting Blossoms to the Sky, the mid-century period piece he released in 2013 that was apparently even more critical of nuclear power). I'm sure I missed a lot of cultural context, but the sound and editing is intentionally designed to overwhelm the viewer, drown them in the vast tides of 100 years' worth of history.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: Agent (gobble, gobble) Coop on January 21, 2016, 04:59:44 pm
The next art weirdo on my list to recommend is Nobuhiko Obayashi. He's primarily known in America for his psychedelic haunted house freakout (and Criterion-approved classic) Hausu, but Obayashi's career stretches back to the 50s. Hausu was Obayashi's first feature, but he'd started out making experimental art films in college and became a Ridley Scott-level prolific TV commercial director to continue funding experiemental shorts. Obayashi was such a rabid fan of Hollywood movies that he did something almost unheard of: he flew to Hollywood on his own dime and started entering his shorts in local film festivals. While in Los Angeles, he became lifelong friends with Charles Bronson. Bronson was not yet the gigantic megastar he would become, but he was an extremely recognizable face in American movies. So when Bronson needed some cash, Obayashi suggested he shoot some ads in Japan to capitalize on the country's obsession with Hollywood actors. And thus started the long and storied tradition of American celebrities starring in Japanese commercials for some side cash. So if you've ever enjoyed Arnold Schwarzenegger screaming and firing lighting bolts from his eyes to promote a Japanese energy drink, you have Obayashi and Bronson to thank.
After toiling in the advertising salt mines for twoish decades, Toho finally gave Obayashi the funding for Hausu. The movie's plot was based on a story Obayashi's 7-year-old daughter had written after a terrible nightmare, and also included allusions to then-current urban legends about people lurking deep in the Japanese countryside who had resorted to cannibalism when the Japanese countryside was in full-on Grave of the Fireflies time. A group of schoolgirls encouter a witch in a creaky old house, psychedelic supernatural horror ensues. To make the setting more bizarre and otherworldly, Obayashi declined to use Toho's famed effects department and instead hired fellow experimental video artists from the circuit he'd been touring for the past 2 decades. While Hausu is Obayashi's crowning achievement, his other work also plays with avant garde film techniques (albeit not to the same degree as Hausu), where the central character is usually a teenage girl in a coming-of-age story.
Not a valid vimeo URL
Obayashi also helmed a very, very loose adaptation of the seminal horror manga The Drifting Classroom. What it lacks in faithfulness in to the source material, it makes up for gonzo wackiness. A classroom of "International students" (whose ages range from 6-35) are forced to survive after being transported to the Japan of the far future, a desert wasteland populated by giant maneating lobster-cockroaches.
Not a valid vimeo URL
Though he's 93 years old, Obayashi is still cranking out movies. And thankfully, they're still pretty great. Last year, he released Seven Weeks, one of his most complex and nuanced films yet. Using the framework of a family coming together to remember the death of a 93-year-old relative, it explores the whole of 20th Century Japan's history, with some biting commentary thrown in about wartime atrocities and the government's ties to the nuclear industry (I missed seeing Casting Blossoms to the Sky, the mid-century period piece he released in 2013 that was apparently even more critical of nuclear power). I'm sure I missed a lot of cultural context, but the sound and editing is intentionally designed to overwhelm the viewer, drown them in the vast tides of 100 years' worth of history.
Damn, I love hausu, and I haven't seen like any of these. Thanks a million man.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: NutshellGulag on January 21, 2016, 05:18:47 pm
Well, if we're going to veer off into good, slightly odd Japanese directors, I'd like to put forward my favorite: Juzo Itami. He made one of my favorite movies, Tampopo, as well as Minbo, A Taxing Woman, and A Taxing Woman's return. They're all very good. Tampopo is the closest to being "arty"; the others have a lot of scathing criticism of the Japanese government and yakuza as they were at the time he filmed them. His wife, Nobuko Miyamoto, stars in all of them and is a wonderful actress. WATCH THEM.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: CormansInferno on January 28, 2016, 09:33:40 pm
[Holy shit, this one turned out LONG. But believe me, this guy deserves it]
So it's a real crime that the next weirdo artuer I'm going to mention isn't mentioned alongside other Eastern European arthouse giants that were his contemporaries, but there are a lot of reasons Andrzej Zulawski was a largely overlooked director until recently. If you know Zulawski for anything, it's probably Possession, his only English language movie, a social/body horror/psychosexual nightmare where Sam Neill crashes a motorcycle into the Berlin Wall and Isabelle Adjiani fucks a Carlos Rimbaldi-designed monster (which, by the way, he created the same year as ET). While all his movies are completely bizarro and worth a look (if you can find them), his 1st 6 features are absolute masterpieces. Zulawski manages to push his actors to a more extreme place than most cinema is willing to go, and the emotional intesity that radiates off the screen as a result of that strikes the viewer like lighting and leaves an indelible mark on the psyche (no trailer sharing this time, because each Zulawski movie has things that would be very hard to explain away at the average workplace).
He started off with The Third Part of the Night, a dreamlike, gruesome noir set in a WWII-era Warsaw ghetto and based on his Father's experiences as a Jew in Nazi Poland. After his family is callously executed by SS officers, a man becomes obssessed with a young mother who's her exact double (played by the same actress); an obsession that sets him on a path to becoming a medical guinea pig infected with diseased fleas and, ultimately, his own doom. Third Part garnered so much international praise that his 2nd feature was immediately approved - The Devil.
The Devil is very, very hard to find, and with good reason. Zulawski had been part of an anti-communist journalism organization that was destroyed by spies from the Polish Government posing as sympathizers and spreading divisive, paranoid rumors to the other members. Zulawski was so incensed at the government's actions that he decided to take the money they'd gave him and make a giant middle finger in movie form. While Devil is obstensibly a fairytale like period piece, it's subtextually a scalding inditement of Communist spycraft tactics. A young nobleman is sprung from jail in 17th Century Poland to find that his father is dead, his sister has married his most despised enemy to survive, and his onetime fiancee is preganant with his best friend's child. From there he descends into violent madness (descents into madness are a big part of the Zulawski aesthetic), spurred on by a demonic figure whose methods just happen to resemble the Polish government's anti-journalism tactics. For example, the Devil hands him a knife, saying that he should never use it, but by all means if he were in the same position he would TOTALLY UNDERSTAND using it to kill everyone that wronged him, not that he should, but it would be TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE.
After Zulawski turned in the final cut of the film, the Polish censor board was less than impressed. They informed him he and his wife, Polish ingenue Malagorzata Braunek (the lead actrsss in most of Zulawski's early work), had 48 hours to leave the country or they would be jailed, and Devil wasn't released until a decade later. Zulawski and Braunek landed in France and made L'important c'est d'aimer, a heartwreching drama about love triangles and theater troupes that starred Braunek and Klaus Kinski. Hailed as a masterpiece on the European arthouse circuit, it made Poland reconsider Zulawski's exile.
To lure him back, the Polish government not only promised to make he and his wife full citizens again, they promised to fund any script he came up with next. He came up with what, at the time, was the most expensive movie Poland had ever funded. On The Silver Globe was to be a centuries-spanning sci-fi epic based on a novel written by Zulawski's grandfather. The plot is dense, surreal, and impossible to sumamrize, even moreso because it was never officially finished. 3/4ths of the way through production, government censors realized Zulawski was making yet another anti-Communist movie. They ordered all the negatives, sets, and costumes to be burned and exiled Zulawski and Braunek permanently. 10 years later, Zulawski revealed over the past decade his crew on the film had been smuggling him as much complete footage as they could from Poland to France. Zulawski fills in the gaps by walking around the streets of Paris with a camera and narrating what the viewer would've seen in the finished movie. It ends with with Zulawski filimng himself in a department store window, outlining what would've been the final scene and giving an acidic thanks to the Polish government for creating the cut of the movie he's just shown.
Both getting kicked out of Poland and having her career destroyed for the 2nd time was where Braunek understandably reached a breaking point, and she and Zulawski had a nasty divorce. Zulawski channeled that misery into Possession, which despite all the supernatural (and otherwise) horror is at its core a story about a guy who just does not want to accept that his wife wants to be in love with a better person than him ("Can't you see I despise you?!" Adjiani snarls when Neill grabs ahold of her to keep her from leaving). The first half is tense emotional drama (where half the dialogue was taken from direct transcripts of phone conversations between Zulawski and his wife), but it slowly mutates into metaphorical apocalyptic body horror that would do John Carpenter or David Cronenberg proud.
Having emerged from the dark night of the soul, Zulawski decided to take the piss out of himself and made La Femme Publique, a metatextual satire on himself that features an actress having to contend with a obsessive, sociopathic Polish arthouse director who may actually be a serial murderer. While it definitely works on its own, watching it with the context of the 5 previous movies makes the jokes way funnier (as the director bemons his recent divorce, his producer snorts "Of course she left you! You got her kicked out of her home country and destroyed her career - twice!").
TLDR; All of Zulawski's movies are worth a look, but the first half-dozen are the high watermark of his career.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: NutshellGulag on January 29, 2016, 01:03:58 pm
Awesome. I really like Possession, and now my lazy ass doesn't have to look up what else he's done. Thanks!
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: eldritchhat on January 29, 2016, 02:32:10 pm
Seriously Cormansinferno, you are the rock star of this thread.
I guess I'll make another contribution. I've heard a lot of good things about this director, Roy Andersson, but I known I loved his last film A Pigeon Sat on a Branch Reflecting on Existence.
Its a film of beautiful mise en scene, with complex long shots from a single angle, which you know makes it good. Its more of a series of short plays that explore the surrealism and absurdity of our daily lives through different existential concepts. I believe this is part of a series, but I know its on Netflix, so I encourage you to enjoy it.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: Nifty Nif on February 16, 2016, 12:35:27 pm
If you ever get the chance to watch Melancholia (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1527186/)- don't! There's a thin line between artsy, pretentious and just plain bad - and this film is so beyond this line it's figuratively torture to watch. Ambious, January 20, 2016, 04:06:04 am
I actually quite liked the film, but I can understand why someone might not. If you don't mind, Ambious, could you please tell us why it was so deplorable? eldritchhat, January 20, 2016, 04:14:51 am
It could just be me - or perhaps I had a bad viewing experience - but I just couldn't follow it. I understand it's meant to be a metaphor, but it went too far in that I couldn't pinpoint actual plot points and it was just too slow and inconsistent to process which in turn made it boring and long as hell. Again - the 'art' behind the film may be good, but I was so unable to actually even remotely connect to anything I wasn't even able to try and appreciate anything else. Ambious, January 20, 2016, 04:41:15 am
I get that. Even though I like the film, it does feel somewhat meandering, in the second part at least. However, what may be a detractor for you, that being that it was basically just the filmmaker wallowing in his own depression, was what made the movie for me. I have a history of depression, and I believe that Kirsten Dunst's performance alone gives me great incentive to watch, and allows me to personally identify with her. Ultimately, the movie was about the relationship between the two sisters, which can be great if you have a personal investment in both those characters, but if either falls flat for you, then the movie just kinda falls apart. eldritchhat, January 20, 2016, 05:11:05 am
Reviving this thread because I like art films and I like talking about von Trier! I actually loved Melancholia, and I have very little patience for slow films. I think it resonated with me in particular because, as mentioned, the movie is certainly entrenched in the filmmaker's depression. It's Kirsten Dunst's most captivating performance, in my opinion. There's also a lot to be said about the extended comparison with the music of Tristan und Isolde playing throughout, but maybe someone who knows more about the opera and Wagner can speak more to that.
I'm interested in hearing what people think about misogynist themes in Antichrist and Melancholia. A lot of people I know who are interested in some subset of cinema and social justice dismiss von Trier outright as a "raging misogynist" without providing much explanation. I need to rewatch both films to properly weigh in, but I'd like to hear what people think.
I'm loving all of the recommendations in this thread. I haven't sat down and watched a movie in ages, and this is inspiring me. I'll throw in my rather ordinary recommendations too.
I studied French cinema in college and got pretty into the Nouvelle Vague. My favorites from the era are the popular Les 400 coups (The 400 Blows, Truffaut, 1959) and A bout de souffle (Breathless, Godard, 1960). It was a really happening time for new directors, especially former film critics with new ideas and artistic sensibilities. Both of my faves really defined and began the era with their dramatic cinematography and were both directors' film debuts. The 400 Blows is a heartbreaking coming-of-age story, and Breathless is a charming, crime-filled romp through Paris. They're both pretty short and definitely worth a watch. I've seen quite a few of Godard's other films, but I think Breathless is his best. Don't bother watching any of his past Tout va bien, and even that one's not that great.
Yay, French films! I can talk more about this if anyone's interested.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: Agent (gobble, gobble) Coop on February 16, 2016, 01:08:55 pm
I certainly haven't read any essays on it or anything, but Antichrist seems to operate on a pretty authentic sense of hatred for every member of its cast. I did like it though, so I might be biased
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: eldritchhat on February 16, 2016, 03:51:48 pm
I take the same approach to Lars Von Trier and Antichrist as Zizek does with Heidegger and Nazism, and considering the quote at the top, that's pretty appropriate. A lot of Trier's films carry the theme of inherent evil of nature, as opposed to the typical assumption of nature as something naturally good, instinctive, and from which humanity deviated. Antichrist is the ultimate version of this theme, seeing as William Defoe's plan was to return Charlotte Gainsbourg to nature to cure her of her depression, and he ultimately lead her to insanity. There is definitely a misogynistic aspect to the film, and I doubt old Lars is a feminist, but you also have to consider that the entire film is taken from the perspective of William Defoe's character, which is actually pretty strange. The majority of Lars Von Trier's films tend to be from the perspective of women, yet this one which is, ostensibly, about the nature of women, is from the perspective of the man. I mean, William is the only one who sees those fucking creepy animals, and he is the one who has all the control over his wife until she goes on the last rampage. In a certain sense, William was doing the same thing as Charlotte, through these satanic aspects he tries to justify the murder of his wife by making himself a victim, while she tried to rectify her guilt by taking her own agency away, obfuscating her perspective as to see herself as naturally evil. Really, what Lars Von Trier is trying to say, in my opinion, is that nature itself is a neurotic concept that clouds the fact of our own terrible agency and purposelessness in the universe, that babies can die because of our carnal desire, and that we can still be human when that happens.
However, Trier went about in a way that was pretty fucking obtuse, and he was obviously aware that he'd piss people off considering his taste in humor, so I imagine he could of gone about it in more considerate fashion. That said, I enjoyed the movie (as much as one can enjoy a movie such as this) and like Lars Von Trier's films a lot, so I'm biased as well. Either way, sorry if I went into a monster cockysis.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: CormansInferno on February 19, 2016, 05:51:43 pm
Sad news, folks. Zulawski died this week. But he has one more film (which he directed last year) coming, and one of the awesomest things is that the retrospectives that LA's Cinefamily (where I was introduced to his work) and NYC's BAM Cinematek both arranged in 2011 were what inspired him to pick up the camera for what was ultimately the last time.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: Cheapskate on February 20, 2016, 02:48:38 am
Guy Maddin’s filmmaking career was inspired by silent film, and it shows. Here’s “Send Me to the ‘Lectric Chair,” a sort of mad science ballet. My best guess is that it’s about addiction, but I don’t have the heart of an artist so I could be wrong.
On the other hand, I’m entirely sure that Theodore Ushev’s “Tower Bawher” is about Communism, and it’s awfully thrilling for a film that has no actual plot.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: Captain Nobeard on March 18, 2016, 09:20:44 am
Lately I've been studying European Portuguese, and so as a result I've been watching a lot of movies from Portugal. In general, Portuguese films are very arty and sometimes pretentious, but not necessarily un-watchable.
I saw Pedro Costa's film "O Sangue" from 1989 recently, and I left a very big impression. The black and white cinematography has a dream-like element that I've never seen in any other film before. This movie is a personal recommendation of mine.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: Nikaer Drekin on March 18, 2016, 09:20:40 pm
Koyaanisqatsi is wonderful. It's an art documentary with gorgeous cinematography set to haunting, powerful music by Philip Glass. It's hands-down one of my favorite movies ever and I can't recommend it enough!
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: NutshellGulag on April 08, 2016, 04:11:55 am
I decided to put this movie here instead of in the bad movie thread because it isn't really bad, even with some dated special effects. I'm a big fan of movies that feel like weird dreams, and this fits the bill. The only way to see it right now that I know of is on YouTube, so here you go. It's worth a watch. A group of pioneers get kicked out of their village because of their preacher's dubious shenanigans. They try to settle somewhere they shouldn't and Things happen.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: FinchChunk on April 10, 2016, 05:02:25 am
Seriously Cormansinferno, you are the rock star of this thread.
I guess I'll make another contribution. I've heard a lot of good things about this director, Roy Andersson, but I known I loved his last film A Pigeon Sat on a Branch Reflecting on Existence. eldritchhat, January 29, 2016, 02:32:10 pm
Thank you for telling me this existed. I saw Du Levande in the theatres something like a decade ago and it's still one of my favourite movie going experience. I've watched it since and while it's still good I don't think it'll ever be as fresh and fun as that first time. This is my second chance.
Certainly a more mainstream taste but shout out to Le Samourai. A film I will never ever get sick of, I think it is the coolest thing ever made.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: eldritchhat on April 13, 2016, 10:33:29 pm
I decided to put this movie here instead of in the bad movie thread because it isn't really bad, even with some dated special effects. I'm a big fan of movies that feel like weird dreams, and this fits the bill. The only way to see it right now that I know of is on YouTube, so here you go. It's worth a watch. A group of pioneers get kicked out of their village because of their preacher's dubious shenanigans. They try to settle somewhere they shouldn't and Things happen.
Since I haven't posted anything in this thread for awhile, I will also provide an experimental film that can be viewed in its entirety on (and only on) YouTube.
It's called We Are The Strange, a collage of different forms of animation, from clay to CGI. It is very much inspired by anime and video games, and takes place in an arcade machine, but don't let that sour it. While it isn't my favorite, I think this film does have a lot of interesting ideas.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: CormansInferno on April 21, 2016, 06:40:38 pm
The LA nonprofit I always rep for on here, the Cinefamily, is going to have their first official film restoration released next month.
Belladonna of Sadness is a gothi-psychedelic psychosexual fantasy that was the last animated film from Osamu Tezuka's 70's animation studio before it went bust. After being violated by a castle full of hideous rich people in masks on her wedding night, a young bride becomes a vengeful sorceress after striking a deal with her own demons. It's equal parts feminist narrative, 70s Japanspliotation sleaze, experimental animation, and watercolor mural. It's never been officially released in the US and, as far as they can tell, never played in the US when it came out in the 70s.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: eldritchhat on June 17, 2016, 03:39:50 pm
I'm a huge stop motion fan (not despite of its uncanny valley feeling, because of it), and today I was shown an interesting short film from Robert Morgan, one which takes full advantage of the creepy aspect of stop motion. It circulated around various film festivals in 2011, and I'm glad to have been introduced to it:
Bobby Yeah
It's more than a little bit NSFW, so please be aware.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: Cheapskate on June 17, 2016, 04:31:15 pm
I'm a huge stop motion fan (not despite of its uncanny valley feeling, because of it) eldritchhat, June 17, 2016, 03:39:50 pm
Speaking of which, Jan Svankmajer, the Czech stop-motion director responsible for the most terrifying adaptation of Alice in Wonderland ever, wants to make one more film before he dies, and he’s crowdfunding it. (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-last-film-by-jan-svankmajer-insects--4)
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: NutshellGulag on June 17, 2016, 06:51:28 pm
I'm a huge stop motion fan (not despite of its uncanny valley feeling, because of it) eldritchhat, June 17, 2016, 03:39:50 pm
Speaking of which, Jan Svankmajer, the Czech stop-motion director responsible for the most terrifying adaptation of Alice in Wonderland ever, wants to make one more film before he dies, and he’s crowdfunding it. (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-last-film-by-jan-svankmajer-insects--4) Cheapskate, June 17, 2016, 04:31:15 pm
Oh man, Něco z Alenky is my FAVORITE adaptation of Alice in Wonderland.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: eldritchhat on June 17, 2016, 07:07:07 pm
I'm a huge stop motion fan (not despite of its uncanny valley feeling, because of it) eldritchhat, June 17, 2016, 03:39:50 pm
Speaking of which, Jan Svankmajer, the Czech stop-motion director responsible for the most terrifying adaptation of Alice in Wonderland ever, wants to make one more film before he dies, and he’s crowdfunding it. (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-last-film-by-jan-svankmajer-insects--4) Cheapskate, June 17, 2016, 04:31:15 pm
Oh man, Něco z Alenky is my FAVORITE adaptation of Alice in Wonderland. NutshellGulag, June 17, 2016, 06:51:28 pm
Oh yeah, my favorite man in stop motion animation is Jan, and I totally agree Nutshell.
I'd say the his version of Alice is the most accurate to the feelings I had while reading the book, as in much of it, Alice finds herself in often hostile and surprisingly adult situations, and she responds to them as a child would. Both Disney's and Tim Burton's version of it do not make Alice seem like the young, naive, and curious child she is, sort of prone to making dumb and unplanned decisions. This movie, however, literally takes things in Alice's surrounding environment, and brings them to life.
Despite how disturbing Svankmayer's work is, I find that it always has a childish element to it (a very harsh childish element, but outside of Disney, children are quite harsh) that reminds a bit of the Brothers Grimm.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: CormansInferno on July 01, 2016, 06:10:09 pm
One more reason to love Sion Sono: One of his latest movies (he made 5 last year and is starting production on 7[!!!] this year), TAG, is a metaphysical horror movie about the misogyny of GamerGate and male fantasies in general.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: Muffinator on September 16, 2016, 02:51:06 am
I just got done watching The Neon Demon and I have no idea how to feel. It's so convinced of its own importance that it had me second-guessing myself as to whether I was missing something: 'The fashion industry is shallow and predatory' 'LA is sleazy' 'the relationship between sex and death is closer than we like to admit' aaaand that's about it?
A lot of critics felt the same way I do, but a lot of them also loved it and they're talking about Nicholas Refn as the next big auteur.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: chai tea latte on September 16, 2016, 06:21:26 am
I really loved it and it's probably my 4th favourite movie this year (The Witch, The Lobster, 10 Cloverfield Lane). You're not wrong about the movie but I felt like there was something transcendent about it which is such a bullshit defense, but I really, really enjoyed it.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: Muffinator on September 16, 2016, 12:34:58 pm
Yeah, I get that. It's intense, shocking and gorgeously shot: I just felt it was in the service of really facile ideas. I was toying with the idea that the beautiful/hollow thing is intentional but I'm not sure that's better.
Title: Art Films and other pretentious Delights
Post by: Nikaer Drekin on September 18, 2016, 11:21:23 am
I thought it had a lot of interesting things to say about the nature of beauty. Yes, the fashion industry is exploitative of women and that's not an exceptionally bold thing to say, but I think the movie did a great job of stripping away the pretense of cold professionalism in the fashion industry and connecting the underlying motives with animal savagery. To me, at least, the movie was saying that so many of our natural, human desires (having sex and personal advancement especially) are built on brutal competition and are a thinly veiled struggle to kill or be killed. As a theme, I found this both interesting and genuinely scary, even more so because this movie is fucking terrifying.
The only scene that didn't quite ring true for me and verged on shock-for-shock's-sake or art film pretension was the corpse-fucking scene, but it was such a brief moment in an otherwise really well-constructed and smart film that I don't detract too many points for that.