Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: rhorsman on May 08, 2021, 07:49:37 pm
I haven't finished yet, but just coming in to say the slime box digression is possibly the best thing that's happened on this show since "baby meth pusher". Or at least it hit me in just the right spot.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: KingKalamari on May 08, 2021, 08:03:01 pm
Oh my, I have a lot of thoughts about this subject!
So, I actually stumbled on the Aesthetics wiki before this episode. I think that some of the weirdly-specific aesthetics are kind of interesting and the baseline concept of the site (A wiki about fashion trends and subcultures) is a potentially worthwhile idea. Unfortunately the major failing of this wiki is the tendency of internet nerds to needlessly subcategorize things.
Adventurecore, Natural Philosophy, Earthcore, Naturecore, Cabincore, Scoutcore, Campcore, Hikecore, Bloomcore, Cryptidcore, Cryptid Academia, Forestpunk, and Plant Mom are all basically just minor variants on "wearing flannel shirts, taking nature walks and listening to indie folk music" (Or "Being the front man of Lord Huron", I guess?) and have basically the same list of associated media for all of them (You can listen to bands other than Florence + The Machine and The Oh Hellos on a nature walk, you know...).
In the interest of simplification, I believe I have boiled down all the styles on this wiki that aren't pre-existing art movements and subcultures into combinations of the following base concepts:
Vaporwave Nerd Shit Lumberjack Shit University Nerd Shit Rave Shit Horny Shit More vaporwave Big tiddy goth gf It's the 80s: Do a Lot of Coke and Vote for Ronald Reagan Steampunk is a cancer that is consuming us all Slime chill lo fi beats to study to, but as a life identity Seriously, most of it is just vaporwave
I also wanted to highlight this little segment from the entry for "Goblincore":
Controversy Goblincore has been criticized of being anti-Semitic. This is because Goblins, especially when depicted as ugly, thieving or greedy creatures obsessed with shiny things, are frequently used as an anti-Semitic caricature. People have suggested alternatives to the name, calling it Gremlincore instead of Goblincore, or simply changing it to Crowcore, Dragoncore, or other aesthetics similar to Goblincore. There are Jewish people who are against Goblincore, but also those who are not.
Goblincore has also been accused of excessively cross-tagging in the Witchblr community, something taken very seriously on the website Tumblr.
Finally, I just want to take a moment to state truth to fact: The only worthwhile vaporwave-derivative is simpsonswave:
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Lumbermouth on May 08, 2021, 08:42:58 pm
This is like TVTropes for people who think they’re too cool for TVTropes.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: 1234GO! on May 08, 2021, 08:55:26 pm
regardless of the contents of this ep, you should check out the band Clown Core if you like clown-horn accented jazz fusion.
also, as someone who kinda got into seapunk for 6ish months in 2011, you should listen to Unicorn Kid's Tidal Rave EP and absolutely nothing else.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Mix on May 08, 2021, 10:13:07 pm
x-core is to tumblr as x-punk is to reddit
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Cradicus on May 08, 2021, 10:31:03 pm
Do Dark Jocks go to Shadow Football Congress?
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Seth "Slimy" Rollins on May 08, 2021, 10:40:33 pm
most wedgieable episode since the NEET one imo
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: KingKalamari on May 09, 2021, 12:01:34 am
Tag suggestions: Teenagers, Watching Too Much Television, Useless Tiny Detail Fetish, Witness the Death of Shame and Reason, Tumblr, Ugly Websites, I need a lift to burning man, misguided diy, cant sleep clown will eat me, fandom, we're all goth now, goffik, the very dankest memes, vaporwave, SLIME
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: EYE OF ZA on May 09, 2021, 03:23:28 am
This is the episode I'm the asshole for because I understand and appreciate the distinctions between all of these. I also have opinions on several different vaporwave subgenres. I haven't felt this attuned to an episode's subject since the root beer reviews episode.
I am extremely wedgieable.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: A Meat on May 09, 2021, 06:05:27 am
I'm slimecore, but it's Dragon Quest slimes
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: 1234GO! on May 09, 2021, 09:21:14 am
This is the episode I'm the asshole for because I understand and appreciate the distinctions between all of these. I also have opinions on several different vaporwave subgenres. I haven't felt this attuned to an episode's subject since the root beer reviews episode.
SAME, I'm the guy they made up who still knows who Le1f is instead of actual valuable info, and got irl disappointed that nightbus isn't in the list of aesthetics.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Great Joe on May 09, 2021, 11:54:49 am
If we ever meet I'm wedgieing you both.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Mix on May 09, 2021, 12:30:40 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/5VsGLps.png)
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: three cats in a self-driving car on May 09, 2021, 01:32:16 pm
How did you read this whole list, this endless list that keeps on going, make a joke about parkour and not about
Encore
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Boots Raingear on May 09, 2021, 04:48:13 pm
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Captain Fargle on May 09, 2021, 06:05:24 pm
"Salvia Plath" made the soda I was drinking come out my nose so thanks for that.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Puppy Time on May 09, 2021, 07:44:38 pm
This is the episode I'm the asshole for because I understand and appreciate the distinctions between all of these. I also have opinions on several different vaporwave subgenres. I haven't felt this attuned to an episode's subject since the root beer reviews episode.
Can you explain the difference among core, wave, and punk, because I'm not convinced there really is one
I'd also be interested in the distinction between, say, goblincore and witchcore, which seem to both be "I like to go hiking and bring home neat rocks."
I kind of vacillate between being supportive of kids making up weird shit for their own sake and being an old person and shaking my cane at them for coming up with increasingly byzantine divisions of subcultures that all seem to be the same. And/or coming up with labels for things that already have names just those names don't have a silly suffix.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: KingKalamari on May 09, 2021, 08:34:50 pm
Can you explain the difference among core, wave, and punk, because I'm not convinced there really is one
I'd also be interested in the distinction between, say, goblincore and witchcore, which seem to both be "I like to go hiking and bring home neat rocks."
I kind of vacillate between being supportive of kids making up weird shit for their own sake and being an old person and shaking my cane at them for coming up with increasingly byzantine divisions of subcultures that all seem to be the same. And/or coming up with labels for things that already have names just those names don't have a silly suffix. Puppy Time, May 09, 2021, 07:44:38 pm
I'm as in the dark as you regarding most of your questions, but I can at least answer what makes the "-punk" suffix distinct (At least in the way it's used on the wiki).
So this completely predates Tumblr and the subculture responsible for this wiki, instead being rooted in the world of speculative fiction, specifically cyberpunk.
The term "cyberpunk" was originally coined in 1983 by author Bruce Bethke to refer to a new generation of "punk" teenagers affected by the technological progress of the Information Age. The term was quickly picked up and used by Bethke's contemporaries (including William Gibson, Neil Stephenson and Bruce Sterling) to refer to their own movement of post-New Wave science fiction that focused on dystopian, post-information age societies that explored themes of anti-authoritarianism as well as societal upheaval and change.
Once cyberpunk rose to public prominence in the late 80s - early 90s, derivative genres began to emerge that also used the "-punk" suffix. This was understandable at first, as most of these early derivatives maintained the anti-authority, "punk" ethos of the original genre but dealt with different varieties of speculative technology. "Biopunk" is probably the best example from this period as its stories typically kept their focus on disaffected or outsider protagonists fighting against deeply authoritarian, technological societies, but with a focus on bio-engineering as opposed to digital technologies.
Where the terminology starts to lose its original significance is Steampunk. The term was originally coined as a joke in the late 80s to refer to the Victorian-themed, retro-futuristic works of authors like Tim Powers, James Blaylock and K. W. Jeter, but sort of took on a life of its own as more authors started to explore similar ideas. While the genre was initially more of a cult-classic within the realm of speculative fiction, it gradually gained in popularity through the 90s and into the early 2000s. While the earliest steampunk works maintained some degree of the original "punk" ethos inherited from the cyberpunk genre, this aspect would slowly become muddled as it became more popular with the genre's visual aesthetics and spectacle (Top hats with gears! Zeppelins! Handlebar moustaches!) garnering far more attention from imitators than the political ethos that originally the defined the "-punk" derivative genres.
The popularity of steampunk would end up affecting the general naming conventions of retro-futuristic speculative fiction and led to a rise in genre imitators that applied steampunk's whole "Science fiction technology derived from Victorian-era engineering and aesthetics" to other historical eras. Thus you had things like "Dieselpunk" which focused on the interwar period of the early 20th century; "Stonepunk", which focuses on early humanity; or "Sandalpunk", which focuses on the classical era.
And that is how the "-punk" suffix evolved from something that was used to refer to works specifically inspired by the ethos of the original punk movement, to something you stick on the end of a word you like to make your amateur speculative fiction seem more distinct and interesting!
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Puppy Time on May 09, 2021, 08:45:19 pm
While I appreciate the effortpost I still don't understand what distinguishes it from the other suffixes :(
Edit: Unrelated, but I'm distraught that they had a perfectly good opportunity to say "unicore" and instead went with the wet fart of "unicorn core"
Edit2: Oh, there's a question I know the answer to!
"Pick Mes" are a weird trend I understand originates from the Black community of the US, sort of the Extreme Femme cousin to the Not Like Other Girls. A Pick Me likes to put down other girls by bragging about how she's amazing at both looking attractive AND doing Wife Things, as well as ready, willing, and excited to completely subsume her entire identity into serving her husband, and therefore clearly the superior choice for girlfriend, because you don't date people for their personality. Tends to be incel-level bitter that she hasn't gotten picked.
Here's a fun video on the topic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm47LYh2SBk)
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Mix on May 09, 2021, 09:01:31 pm
I can answer a bit about the other two!
x-wave originates mostly from chillwave, which was a genre of music back in the 2000s that was basically taking stuff like electropop, new wave, shoegaze, etc, but with a more relaxed, nostalgic vibe. The actual term itself was coined as a kind of joke about how a lot of this music sounds like the stuff you'd hear from 80s tv marathons or vhs tapes or what have you. it was one of the first musical genres to develop primarily online (compared to a lot of the stuff that inspired it), and was pretty much the origin point for a lot of other stuff that would follow, most notably vaporwave, which is literally just chillwave but, like, ironic.
x-core also has musical origins, specifically hardcore punk music, which was distinct from regular punk rock because it was a lot faster, more aggressive, and "harder"- leaning closer to stuff like metal. When this genre kept expanding a lot of musical artists kept the 'core' part, mostly because of what had influenced them, which is how we started getting stuff like metalcore, synthcore, breakcore, and so on- its kind of like how there's all those genres of music with 'step' at the end (techstep, darkstep, etc), because they share a similar origin point but use the first half of the genre to differentiate themselves.
The thing is, these differences were pretty much only important to actual musicians who wanted to make it really distinct what they were trying to go for, whereas the average listener isn't really going to care what the differences between drum and base, jungle, breakbeat, or happycore are.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: EYE OF ZA on May 09, 2021, 09:02:21 pm
There's no coherent difference between -core, -wave and -punk, because these genres tend to be self-defined, so they'll use idiosyncratic but similar terminology. A good example: the "synth" in synthwave is different from the "synth" in dungeon synth. Synthwave is 80's pop/power metal, dungeon synth is old-school computer RPG soundtracks. But there's rough trends you can make out in each of them:
"Core" can mean some kind of relation to hardcore music, or more generally an aggressive mood ("witchcore" would be hardcore but applied to witchy stuff, for instance), but mostly it's the suffix you append to the name of your genre, because it is "core" to being whatever. Like it's saying "this is core-essential witch content."
"Wave" is what softer or more pop-influenced genres get named. Synthwave, vaporwave and sovietwave are all specifically doing pop music nostalgia, from 80's action soundtracks, 90's muzak, and 70's/80's Russian disco-pop. Sometimes it's an ancestral trait: fashwave is named that because it's fascist-themed synthwave, like how laborwave is leftist-themed vaporwave.
"Punk" is the most vague, because it can be coming from punk or punk rock music like folk punk ("I like Woodie Guthrie and I have an abrasive voice, here's a song about boycotts."), from a punk-influenced genre like cyberpunk ("I like synthwave, but slightly queerer."), from a genre that happens to have punk in the name like steampunk ("What if I sang a rap about an airship?") and from something you just came up with, like mythpunk ("This song is about Persephone but she has tattoos.") The clearest thing I can say about -punk is that it makes things grungier.
Although I've never heard goblincore, I imagine it's more nihilistic and ironic than witchcore. Goblincore is having a hoard of shiny rocks, witchcore is collecting twigs to sell as sigils; witchcore would be darker and more mysterious, while goblincore would have more kitsch.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Deep 13 on May 09, 2021, 09:23:39 pm
I'm genuinely loving the music discussion, as I've often wondered the difference between -core, -wave and -punk.
As for all the crazy variations in the episode, the closest I'd come in to contact with a lot of this before now was youtube going "Hey, you like this song? What if it was a sea shanty? What if it was in medieval style?"
Great episode, and I loved the Intern's diversion into the exciting world of slime products.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: ham burger on May 09, 2021, 10:30:42 pm
two things about this episode:
i have never felt more like i was leaving my body during an episode of the f plus than during the intern’s diversion into slime products, it felt like reality was breaking down around me or my brain was dying or something, absolutely transcendental
something about the people who wrote this wiki makes them so much more contemptible to me than basically any other subjects that have ever been covered. i think it’s the like... intense pretension and stupidity of all of it. i generally find fiddly niche genre obsession absolutely exhausting to begin with. i djed at clubs for over a decade and wound up trapped in so many discussions with nerds who wanted to spiral into these intense discussions about the lineage of music that was largely just utilitarian untz untz that really didn’t have staying power, so i feel like i’m super sensitive to this specific variety of annoying. it’s fabulous that you’re playing finnish speed kazoo garage and tending towards soy latte 2-step, yes, this is very interesting. what do i play? me? music, probably. that’s the plan tonight at least.
while i don’t deny there’s value in categorizing stuff, a lot of this intense detailed obsession often feels like making up for a gap in just having the experience and taking it for what it is. i think it’s a lot harder to get tangled up in fiddly details when you’re just like, at a show, and you hear something, and you’re trading tracks around with folks. it was always the bedroom dj kids who would have these insane encyclopedic knowledge, and they’d be super obsessed with things like the specific bpms of tracks or whatever and get lost in the sauce of showing that all off. nobody would dance.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Puppy Time on May 09, 2021, 10:48:26 pm
Having lived through the time when a bunch of kids were making up niche genders, I'm a lot more forgiving of kids making up niche aesthetic subcultures, even if their apparent differences are on the level of, "No, that one's 'eggshell,' this one's 'off white.'"
I will say I have no idea what sovietwave aesthetic looks like but the music is lovely.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: ham burger on May 09, 2021, 10:52:17 pm
Having lived through the time when a bunch of kids were making up niche genders, I'm a lot more forgiving of kids making up niche aesthetic subcultures, even if their apparent differences are on the level of, "No, that one's 'eggshell,' this one's 'off white.'"
I will say I have no idea what sovietwave aesthetic looks like but the music is lovely. Puppy Time, May 09, 2021, 10:48:26 pm
that was a very dark swing for the internet. even by internet standards, it flew past “acceptance and understanding” and directly into “appropriating in a way that actually sets real people back in being accepted and understood” in absolute record time.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Puppy Time on May 09, 2021, 11:50:11 pm
I mean, I don't disagree, but I'm also not sure that it's okay to lay all the responsibility for that on dumb 13 year olds who are trying to figure out this gender and sexuality shit, which is what that mostly was. I feel like a lot of the people who would refuse to accept a gender/sexuality because "look at these dumb teenagers over here" were probably not all that inclined to be accepting in the first place and were just looking for an excuse. I really don't think that we'd be in a significantly different place as a culture if that hadn't been going on.
At the end of the day, kids are going to do really boneheaded stuff because they barely any idea what's going on and they're trying to figure it out for themselves. They definitely should have it explained to them when they're fucking up, but at the same time I feel like it's something we should be a bit more kind about.
And also probably gently poke fun at them because they're being silly.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Macho Masc Sangy Savage on May 10, 2021, 12:14:10 am
So what would FPlus core be? Red, black, green, lots of circles, clean crisp vectors paired with blown out artifact text.
And dolphins, of course
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Muffinator on May 10, 2021, 01:32:02 am
oh no I know what a bunch of this stuff is
it's me, it took years, but the fplus came into my home and shot me in the face
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: jim and the mammograms on May 10, 2021, 10:37:28 am
Same tbh. Had a strong impulse last night to write a "okay i KNOW cripplepunk sounds bad but at least in my sensible corners of the internet it mostly just describes actual disabled people working their assistive devices into their fashion instead of having a Look and also an ugly boring cane they hate so i feel like it's more quote unquote valid than a lot of shit on here" comment, but then had a moment of self-reflection and went to lie down for a bit.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: EYE OF ZA on May 10, 2021, 11:31:46 am
I think the thing to understand is this is basically "what your fursona's theme would be" without the fursona.
If you're into witchcore, it's because you're not a furry, but if you were, your fursona would be a witch.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Puppy Time on May 10, 2021, 01:48:19 pm
Same tbh. Had a strong impulse last night to write a "okay i KNOW cripplepunk sounds bad but at least in my sensible corners of the internet it mostly just describes actual disabled people working their assistive devices into their fashion instead of having a Look and also an ugly boring cane they hate so i feel like it's more quote unquote valid than a lot of shit on here" comment, but then had a moment of self-reflection and went to lie down for a bit. jim and the mammograms, May 10, 2021, 10:37:28 am
I mean there's a lot of stuff on the F Plus that's perfectly valid, it's just a) not something that should be shared on the internet, b) done in a stupid and/or horrible way, c) very funny to outsiders, or d) some combination of the three.
One of the reasons I like this podcast is because its mockery is mostly done in a non-mean, non-bullying way. It's just kind of reacting in funny ways to extremely weird shit, without the judgment and shittiness of stuff like cringe videos or kiwifarms. Like, it's not exactly nice, but it rarely feels like they're attacking anyone for being extremely weird.
ETA:
I think the thing to understand is this is basically "what your fursona's theme would be" without the fursona.
If you're into witchcore, it's because you're not a furry, but if you were, your fursona would be a witch. EYE OF ZA, May 10, 2021, 11:31:46 am
I feel like these days there's a LOT of crossover and you probably have like witchcore furries and cottagecore furries and all. I can only hope that furry cons occasionally have problems when the goblincores and the chaotic academics run into each other and start snapping at each other in preparation for an aesthetic rumble.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: jim and the mammograms on May 10, 2021, 05:24:41 pm
Same tbh. Had a strong impulse last night to write a "okay i KNOW cripplepunk sounds bad but at least in my sensible corners of the internet it mostly just describes actual disabled people working their assistive devices into their fashion instead of having a Look and also an ugly boring cane they hate so i feel like it's more quote unquote valid than a lot of shit on here" comment, but then had a moment of self-reflection and went to lie down for a bit. jim and the mammograms, May 10, 2021, 10:37:28 am
I mean there's a lot of stuff on the F Plus that's perfectly valid, it's just a) not something that should be shared on the internet, b) done in a stupid and/or horrible way, c) very funny to outsiders, or d) some combination of the three.
One of the reasons I like this podcast is because its mockery is mostly done in a non-mean, non-bullying way. It's just kind of reacting in funny ways to extremely weird shit, without the judgment and shittiness of stuff like cringe videos or kiwifarms. Like, it's not exactly nice, but it rarely feels like they're attacking anyone for being extremely weird. Puppy Time, May 10, 2021, 01:48:19 pm
Oh, yeah, that's one of the things that initially drew me in. Like, the vibe of the podcast is very similar to me when I think back on my teenage magick stage, as an easy example, which is a relatively gentle "ha ha ha this is stupid" and just sort of leaving it at that. Because, you know, ha ha ha, it was pretty stupid that I got upset at my aunt because my Christmas card said "merry Christmas!" instead of "blessed Yule!" but at the same time, it's not really hurting anyone beyond me when I think back and go "oh fuck's sake." Just, like, a chill look at weird internet communities without any real mean-spirited stuff (with the occasional "oh FUCK no" when it comes to stuff that's doing legit harm like advising people not to go to doctors because you can just make a potion instead.)
I just felt the need to point the cripplepunk thing out because I spend way too much time online and divorced of context, yeah, it sounds super fucked up, but it's way less fucked up than it absolutely could be.
ETA:
I think the thing to understand is this is basically "what your fursona's theme would be" without the fursona.
If you're into witchcore, it's because you're not a furry, but if you were, your fursona would be a witch. EYE OF ZA, May 10, 2021, 11:31:46 am
I feel like these days there's a LOT of crossover and you probably have like witchcore furries and cottagecore furries and all. I can only hope that furry cons occasionally have problems when the goblincores and the chaotic academics run into each other and start snapping at each other in preparation for an aesthetic rumble.
I'm not on the furry side of things and have successfully ignored any aesthetic rumbles, but there is the whole goblincore antisemitism debate, so there's that?
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Smallest Sasquatch on May 10, 2021, 06:39:07 pm
Having lived through the time when a bunch of kids were making up niche genders, I'm a lot more forgiving of kids making up niche aesthetic subcultures, even if their apparent differences are on the level of, "No, that one's 'eggshell,' this one's 'off white.'" Puppy Time, May 09, 2021, 10:48:26 pm
Oh boy, the niche genders thing is still going on, and seems like it's maybe even having a revival in the past year or so. I have a whole other doc about the lgbta wiki's xenogenders (there are currently 2,240 of them) and asexual sexual orientations (252, not counting the "fluid" labels). Not sure if I should submit that one. It's so silly and out-there that I can't even get offended by it, but others might find it extremely obnoxious.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Muffinator on May 10, 2021, 06:51:18 pm
I'm not on the furry side of things and have successfully ignored any aesthetic rumbles, but there is the whole goblincore antisemitism debate, so there's that? jim and the mammograms, May 10, 2021, 05:24:41 pm
There is a sort of coherent argument about the origins of goblin folklore c.f. antisemitism (https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/6uzj7r/is_folklore_about_goblins_rooted_in_antisemitism/), so in that very tumblr way that means that 100% of the time if you include goblins in something you're an evil person because there's absolutely no way it could be anything but the worst version of itself.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Muffinator on May 10, 2021, 07:22:41 pm
Like, I gotta admit that goblincore is one of the ones I know fairly well. I don't really engage with the tumblr side of things/The Discourse and have no strong opinions about how it interacts with other aesthetics but like, I mean
Goblincore is basically a bunch of trans women who like D&D and collecting buttons in mason jars; being happy when you see snails in the garden; going out into the dark forest and sinking your feet down in the mud. There's something kinda liberatory about taking something traditionally monstrous and making it cute, you know? It seems to be almost entirely queer folks, and like, very trans. When the world tells you that you're a monster, it kinda feels like spitting it back in their face.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Puppy Time on May 10, 2021, 07:39:25 pm
It seems to be almost entirely queer folks, and like, very trans. When the world tells you that you're a monster, it kinda feels like spitting it back in their face. Muffinator, May 10, 2021, 07:22:41 pm
Honestly this is like 95% of Aesthetic stuff IME
though... that may just be the areas I hang out in, which are full of weird people with various Gender Things going on. I always have to remember that Selection Bias exists.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Agent (gobble, gobble) Coop on May 10, 2021, 08:48:25 pm
We need to bring back the "Rob Zombie Aesthetic."
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: KingKalamari on May 10, 2021, 10:43:39 pm
Like, I gotta admit that goblincore is one of the ones I know fairly well. I don't really engage with the tumblr side of things/The Discourse and have no strong opinions about how it interacts with other aesthetics but like, I mean Muffinator, May 10, 2021, 07:22:41 pm
Yeah, the part that really stuck out to me in the "Goblincore is anti-Semitic maybe?" quote was the part about people wanting to rename it "Gremlincore" as a less derogatory alternative because it feels like such a case of mistaking the map for the territory. Like, I can see a case being made to connect Goblins as portrayed in certain forms of media as being derived from anti-Semitic stereotypes, but if you're following that reasoning to its logical conclusion then the word "Goblin" isn't the aspect of Goblincore you should be taking issue with...
And besides, Gremlincore should be saved for an aesthetic that's all about sabotaging WWII-era aircraft.
Goblincore is basically a bunch of trans women who like D&D and collecting buttons in mason jars; being happy when you see snails in the garden; going out into the dark forest and sinking your feet down in the mud. There's something kinda liberatory about taking something traditionally monstrous and making it cute, you know? It seems to be almost entirely queer folks, and like, very trans. When the world tells you that you're a monster, it kinda feels like spitting it back in their face. Muffinator, May 10, 2021, 07:22:41 pm
That actually reminds me a lot of these two (https://jamesmendezhodes.com/blog/2019/1/13/orcs-britons-and-the-martial-race-myth-part-i-a-species-built-for-racial-terror) articles (https://jamesmendezhodes.com/blog/2019/6/30/orcs-britons-and-the-martial-race-myth-part-ii-theyre-not-human) by James Mendez Hodes discussing the history of Orcs in fantasy fiction and RPGs and its roots in Orientalism and colonialism, specifically the point where he discusses how playing Orc characters is actually something that appeals to a decent chunk of POC players as an act of reclamation against the stereotypes that spawned them.
Also: I think about the only thing in this episode I thought was potentially concerning in this episode was the way some of the subject matter integrated mental health issues as a building block. It's part of a larger concern I've developed about the way people in some of the newer generations commiserate about things like anxiety and depression and whether it crosses the line from supportive to enabling. I don't think it's an actively malicious thing or a fault of the wiki itself though, just a case that when you get people into a group that's united by a common mental health issues, they're not necessarily going to create an environment conducive to dealing with that issue (If any of that makes sense).
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Antivehicular on May 11, 2021, 04:02:07 am
This is a really interesting conversation! It's making me realize that I'm whatever the next step down in interest level is from normcore (borecore?), but y'know.
God, I wish I was a safety goth.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Diploskull on May 11, 2021, 07:36:04 am
I like how this is TV Tropes for vibes.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Puppy Time on May 11, 2021, 11:09:48 am
Yeah, the part that really stuck out to me in the "Goblincore is anti-Semitic maybe?" quote was the part about people wanting to rename it "Gremlincore" as a less derogatory alternative because it feels like such a case of mistaking the map for the territory. Like, I can see a case being made to connect Goblins as portrayed in certain forms of media as being derived from anti-Semitic stereotypes, but if you're following that reasoning to its logical conclusion then the word "Goblin" isn't the aspect of Goblincore you should be taking issue with...KingKalamari, May 10, 2021, 10:43:39 pm
I think a lot of the issue is just that there are a lot of dogwhistle pitfalls that it's fairly reasonable most people wouldn't know about, but which might still cause some level of harm, and it can be easier and safer to just go, "Okay, someone who knows more than me said this is bad, let's avoid it," instead of spending time and energy thoroughly researching whether each individual point of contention is or is not valid. Like, that's time and energy you could be spending hanging out with snails and making them tiny hats.
It's a precarious balance to strike, especially given that if you don't take the safe route (especially if you offer open criticism) you run the risk of getting the attention of people who feel that targeted harassment over extremely niche shit is praxis.
Also: I think about the only thing in this episode I thought was potentially concerning in this episode was the way some of the subject matter integrated mental health issues as a building block. It's part of a larger concern I've developed about the way people in some of the newer generations commiserate about things like anxiety and depression and whether it crosses the line from supportive to enabling. I don't think it's an actively malicious thing or a fault of the wiki itself though, just a case that when you get people into a group that's united by a common mental health issues, they're not necessarily going to create an environment conducive to dealing with that issue (If any of that makes sense).
Apparently this is a big issue in things like Borderline Personality Disorder, where even if you're in treatment it's a terrible idea to be part of a group of people with the same issue, because everyone just ends up constantly triggering each other inadvertently. (It's probably a bad idea for pretty much any personality disorder, really, because a big aspect of those is an incorrect set of core assumptions about reality, which need to not be reinforced.)
There are plenty of mental health disorders that benefit greatly from a supportive group; the main issue is that mental health treatment has too many hurdles for a lot of people to clear, so it can be a coin toss of whether you're getting the equivalent of Sound Medical Advice from someone who got advice from a doctor, or "put crocodile dung and honey on it and bandage it, that'll fix your cancer right up!" (With the added issue that a lot of harmful stuff really does feel good in the moment, and the healthy stuff can feel like shit, so you can't even rely on intuition. Anyone who claims exercising feels good is a dirty, dirty liar.)
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Wolley74 on May 12, 2021, 05:48:05 am
Soooo does this mean I can keep my old top hat or no? cause I gotta admit I went deep down the steampunk rabbit hole, though the Leviathan series from Scott Westerfeld does lean more dieselpunk it pointed me in that direction for a while.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Dr. Buttplug on May 12, 2021, 06:22:41 am
Soooo does this mean I can keep my old top hat or no? cause I gotta admit I went deep down the steampunk rabbit hole, though the Leviathan series from Scott Westerfeld does lean more dieselpunk it pointed me in that direction for a while. Wolley74, May 12, 2021, 05:48:05 am
No.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Puppy Time on May 15, 2021, 10:55:43 pm
I'm gonna say generally if you're asking, you are not ready for a top hat. You need to have the confidence of either the effortlessly cool, or the terminally dorky, so either you can pull it off because you're just that good, or you can't pull it off but you don't give a shit because you're having a good time.
The secret to weird fashion is just not taking anyone else's opinions into account and letting the stupid hats fall where they may.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: xdaringdamselx on May 16, 2021, 03:38:59 pm
I'm gonna say generally if you're asking, you are not ready for a top hat. You need to have the confidence of either the effortlessly cool, or the terminally dorky, so either you can pull it off because you're just that good, or you can't pull it off but you don't give a shit because you're having a good time.
The secret to weird fashion is just not taking anyone else's opinions into account and letting the stupid hats fall where they may. Puppy Time, May 15, 2021, 10:55:43 pm
the coolest accessory is CONFIDENCE!!
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Puppy Time on May 17, 2021, 11:32:00 pm
Nah the coolest accessory is the Reebok Pump
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Muffinator on May 19, 2021, 01:01:45 am
I'm not saying top hats are impossible to look good in in 2021 (I am lowkey obsessed with how well Debbie Ngarewa-Packer pulls it off (https://i.imgur.com/GeQHJV3.jpg)) but I need to add a really important caveat:
Top hats are fine except on white dudes.
I'm sorry but I see a white dude in a top hat and I know that I can either run like hell or spend an hour hearing his opinions about the local kink community and the local TTRPG community and it's gonna do to my soul what the arc of the covenant does to nazi faces.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Muffinator on May 19, 2021, 01:10:06 am
did you know he's a shitty dom winky face emoji devil emoji
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: ham burger on May 19, 2021, 07:41:08 am
I'm sorry but I see a white dude in a top hat and I know that I can either run like hell or spend an hour hearing his opinions about the local kink community and the local TTRPG community and it's gonna do to my soul what the arc of the covenant does to nazi faces. Muffinator, May 19, 2021, 01:01:45 am
every single time i've been accosted by a dude with a violet wand at a kink-leaning show asking if he can make me tingle, it's been a white guy in a tophat
and i understand that seems like something that shouldn't happen more than once but around philly burners/kink folks it seems to be a well understood greeting
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: xdaringdamselx on May 19, 2021, 12:24:19 pm
Confession: my ex and I got married wearing tophats, because that was her kind of trademark at the time, and I wanted to match... although, I say "match," her tophat was a fancy expensive one from London, and mine was bought from like, a Claire's at the mall, so there was a bit of a contrast there, hahahaha!
(https://i.imgur.com/Ab8YIxX.jpg)
I don't think she wears it quite as much nowadays because she often wears noise-canceling headphones to help with her sensory issues, and that's hard to incorporate with a tophat :P
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Puppy Time on May 19, 2021, 06:11:42 pm
Glue tophat on top of headphones. There, I have saved your ex's wardrobe from looking good
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Antivehicular on May 19, 2021, 07:36:21 pm
Glue tophat on top of headphones. There, I have saved your ex's wardrobe from looking good Puppy Time, May 19, 2021, 06:11:42 pm
Then glue a gear, seagull feather, and/or plastic unicorn on the hat. For aesthetic!
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: jim and the mammograms on May 19, 2021, 10:30:15 pm
Only if the top hat is bright or pastel colours, though.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: xdaringdamselx on May 19, 2021, 10:57:52 pm
Glue tophat on top of headphones. There, I have saved your ex's wardrobe from looking good Puppy Time, May 19, 2021, 06:11:42 pm
"hey, you got me that nice birthday present a couple weeks ago and I'm enjoying reading over it, so to celebrate our continuing friendship, I bought a cheap tophat, cut holes out of it, and jammed headphones through it... NOW YOU CAN BE STYLISH *AND* SENSORILY COMFORTABLE"
she also owned a bowler hat and I used to wear it to our LARP meetings with a Count Chocula Tshirt and jeans
how did internet hat people miss the bowler hat, we've seen plenty of tophats, fedoras, and trilbies, but I swear I've never seen anybody taking up a bowler hat as their thing
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Puppy Time on May 20, 2021, 04:54:20 pm
Tricorn's where it's really at
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Diploskull on May 20, 2021, 07:25:42 pm
I'm partial to boater.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: hardrocococafe on May 26, 2021, 02:34:13 am
I'm not saying top hats are impossible to look good in in 2021 (I am lowkey obsessed with how well Debbie Ngarewa-Packer pulls it off (https://i.imgur.com/GeQHJV3.jpg)) but I need to add a really important caveat:
Top hats are fine except on white dudes.
I'm sorry but I see a white dude in a top hat and I know that I can either run like hell or spend an hour hearing his opinions about the local kink community and the local TTRPG community and it's gonna do to my soul what the arc of the covenant does to nazi faces. Muffinator, May 19, 2021, 01:01:45 am
A guessing game to play in LA: is the man in the top hat rolling over here to tell me about 1. Violet wands 2. Thelema or 3. Steampunk n mushrooms night in the Canyon?
My guess is you could swap out some of those site-specific words and this game could be played with white men in tall hats in any locale.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: thelizzerd on May 27, 2021, 11:03:46 pm
Was listening to this and I have a confession to make. High school me in like 2015-2016 used to listen to crywank. They're a real band they aren't that good. I may still have some of their songs in my Spotify likes.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Zemyla on May 28, 2021, 07:25:27 am
Was listening to this and I have a confession to make. High school me in like 2015-2016 used to listen to crywank. They're a real band they aren't that good. I may still have some of their songs in my Spotify likes. thelizzerd, May 27, 2021, 11:03:46 pm
Sounds like a real tearjerker.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Wolley74 on May 29, 2021, 05:49:11 pm
Oh lord, I found the old con photo shoot with my steampunk in full swing. That turned out way more blurred than I remembered
EDIT that teacup is part of a set that's on a belt holder for it, holds saucer spoon and cup. Pretty neat honestly
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Lemon on May 29, 2021, 06:15:13 pm
Oh lord, I found the old con photo shoot with my steampunk in full swing. Wolley74, May 29, 2021, 05:49:11 pm
Jesus Christ
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Lemon on May 30, 2021, 11:27:55 am
(https://i.imgur.com/vUFMpsV.jpg)
You're welcome.
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: Smallest Sasquatch on November 13, 2021, 01:24:05 pm
I just checked back in on the Aesthetics Wiki, and it looks like they've added some new articles! Has the quality improved? No, not really.
American Pioneers https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/American_Pioneers (https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/American_Pioneers) Controversy "The Donner Party's choice to resort to cannibalism was previously seen as inevitable. In more recent times, it was discovered that the party refused the advice and assistance of local Native Americans, and their cannibalism was the result of poor decision making."
Ghostcore https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Ghostcore (https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Ghostcore) "Ghostcore is an aesthetic revolving around ghosts, spirits, cemeteries, and the eerie feeling surrounding them. Ghostcore involves two different factions, one takes focuses on death and the philosophy behind the meaning of life and death, and the other faction takes the macabre and depressing and makes light of it. People may often relate to ghosts or wish to live as one." Activities Feeling chilly Staying in one place for a long time Speaking in a quiet voice Being easily scared, but stays brave Being out at night Love receiving compliments Swaying back and forth Being gentle Being scared of the dark, or super comfy with it Shy but loves talking with close pals Feeling invisible Watching things Hiding and playing hide and seek Admiring your reflection
Gorpcore https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Gorpcore (https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Gorpcore) "The term 'Gorp' was initially coined by 4Chan users in 2017 and was originally intended to be an acronym for 'Graduate Orthodontics Residents Program'. The term is now more commonly stated to be an acronym for 'Good old raisins and peanuts', a reference to the food item trail mix that is popular with hikers and those who engage in outdoors exercise. GORP also widely refers to "Gary Oldman Rise (of the) Planet (of the Apes)", in relation to the actor's award winning performance in the 2011 film, though Oldman is more commonly associated with garycore"
"Gorpcore first gained public recognition when the actor and Texan Matthew McConnaughey was purportedly filmed in a viral TikTok looking at a Patagonia fleece and saying "Now this is Gorp!". The clip was deleted rapidly after it had been posted, and cannot be found anywhere online."
Heistcore https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Heistcore (https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Heistcore) Activities "Theft is illegal, but there are many useful and interesting skills that thieves have which ordinary people can do for fun." Attending art auctions Coin collecting Gymnastics Learning self-defense Lock picking on vintage locks from antique shops Playing poker Visiting museums "There are also some activities that feel like theft or even heists because society has conditioned us to behave in certain ways." Asking for a raise Couponing Donating to RIP Medical Debt - you’ll feel like Robin Hood, "robbing from the rich and giving to those in need" Geocaching Searching for Unclaimed Money/Property/Inheritance Taking free samples
Pigeoncore https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Pigeoncore (https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Pigeoncore) "Pigeoncore is an aesthetic surrounding the theme or hoarding and nature but includes that of birds (most notably, pigeons). Themed around softer aspects of hoarding, collecting, cooking, and other goblincore essentials, focuses on the softer curiosity rather than the goblin-ey nature. Can be considered a combination of goblincore, cottagecore, and bird-based aesthetics." Philosophy "A large aspect of Pigeoncore is reclaiming the once-prominent love of pigeons."
"Hate of pigeons didn’t start until the 20th Century. Before that was about 9,900 years of loving them."
Unicorncore even got a new page! https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Unicorncore (https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Unicorncore) ...which has been revised over 100 times, because unicorn aesthetics are just that controversial
Title: 354: This One Is For My Gull Girls
Post by: LINDA on June 27, 2022, 09:21:27 am
In case no one has actually heard Algal the Bard's cover of Toxicity