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Topic: I want to cause physical harm to Wayne LaPierre.  (Read 40159 times)

Yossarian

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how about local or state gun buyback programs?

i mean that seems pretty cut & dry, right? people willingly no longer desire their fire-arms, and so willingly give them up. they know they're going somewhere safe, to authorities who know how to handle them.  do they bug you? do you think it'd be more fair if the government didn't offer the shelf price for the gun, and thus made it more of a serious choice for the owner or somethin?

i'm just thinkin of this because of the daily show segment, i'll be honest. the guy who stepped in with his local NRA-esque chapter and instigated a private buyback at higher prices WITHOUT checking backgrounds/exchanging licenses/whatever other normal red tape there is really kinda pissed me off. just the fact that he was like YEAH I REALLY STUCK IT TO THOSE DAMN GUN STEALIN GUMMINT MONSTERS :O NOW THOSE GUNS HAVE DISAPPEARED BACK INTO THE COMMUNITY WITHOUT ANY ABILITY TO TRACE THEM THE WORLD IS SURELY A SAFER PLACE HERALD ME AS YOUR NEW HERO and i'm sitting there going arg anyone could have bought those guns arg arrrrrrg no safety checks at all arrrrrrggggg
icarus, April 03, 2013, 07:56:04 pm

The problem with gun buybacks is all the guns are destroyed and way too frequently people sell back antiques that should be in a museum. A lot of the time the police are not going to know whats priceless unless its something obvious like this
No one should be buying guns outside the buyback program, because you WILL run into guns with criminal records. Private sales are legal though. The prices are also extremely low. Your typical AR variant could run you $1000 or more, gun buybacks only will offer you a few hundred at best.

Runic

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The thing is, nobody is talking about gun confiscation.  There is zero political support for an all out gun ban, even post Newtown.  That is simply a strawman.  Americans, in general, don't want to ban guns outright.  That's not the policy that is being discussed, and given the constitutional protections in place I seriously doubt that banning of things like high capacity mags, or even semi-automatic rifles will really act as a slippery slope to it.
Runic, April 03, 2013, 07:22:35 pm

I was simply explaining why some gun owners wouldn't get behind registration. They perceive it's the first step which will eventually lead to confiscation. I made no claims as to its likelihood, and I even pointed out how infeasible it would be to actually carry out. They're just the fears some gun owners have, founded or not.
Isfahan, April 03, 2013, 07:34:17 pm
Fair enough.

montrith

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Just in case my earlier post was unclear (and it was, since I posted half asleep), I do not support banning all guns. I do support gun regulation. This opinion is based on purely what I know about the Finnish system and and applied in Finnish conditions. I know jack-all about legislation and political atmosphere in other countries, so I can't really provide an opinion when it comes to those.

Keetah Spacecat

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I still think education is still probably the best bet. Simply put it a good chunk of Americans have never seen a gun in real life. They only see it in movie theaters and shows where it's used to murder people. So of course they are going to turn around and freak out when a guy buys a bunch of ammo at once, even if he just wants to shoot some clay targets with his pals, because they think he's going to outright murder a whole bunch of people. They really don't know that a gun is just a tool and can be a hobby for people.

Simply put it tighter gun laws aren't really going to prevent horrible shootings. What will help prevent them is teaching people to recognize the signs of disturbed individuals and get them help BEFORE they choose to steal a gun or so and murder people. I think back to the Virgina Tech massacre and how everyone agreed the shooter was obviously disturbed and the school knew about it and nothing was done until it was too late. I always held firm that it's the individuals behind the guns that do the shootings, not the guns.

Still sometimes I wonder when people say they are using assault rifles to hunt with. It seems like it won't leave you very much left of the animal using one of those over a rifle.

Delcat

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The second sentence is a direct refutation of the first.  What if it had been illegal for his mother to buy it?  Where would he have gotten it then?Victor Laszlo, April 02, 2013, 08:53:53 pm

That gun wasn't bought illegally, and it wasn't bought by a criminal. I mean, what if the kid had no hands? How would he have pulled the trigger?Isfahan, April 03, 2013, 02:07:27 am

If someone doesn't have hands, they can't play violent video games so they'd have no urge to shoot a gun.

Actually I'm curious now, can you pull a trigger with any reliability without using your hands?

Isfahan

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how about local or state gun buyback programs?icarus, April 03, 2013, 07:56:04 pm

Gun buyback programs will generally only appeal to folks who own illegal guns and wish to cease riding dirty with no questions asked. Normally, if you have a gun you want to sell you can just sell it to someone. For the sale to be legal, it has to go through an FFL transfer just like if you were buying or selling the gun at a store.

I do not support banning all guns. I do support gun regulation. This opinion is based on purely what I know about the Finnish system and and applied in Finnish conditions. I know jack-all about legislation and political atmosphere in other countries, so I can't really provide an opinion when it comes to those.montrith, April 03, 2013, 09:34:05 pm

Guns are regulated in the US, Montrith! They're just not regulated to the degree they are in most countries. People under 18, convicted felons, undocumented residents, and people with certain documented mental disorders cannot purchase guns. Some states require taking a safety course or proof of firearms training before purchase, some don't. Only a couple of states outright require a permit issued by law enforcement to purchase, but several require a state registration of firearms. The state gun laws are a confused mess of different levels of restriction, since even in the US, attitudes toward gun ownership will vary with the local popular opinion and political culture. As a rule of thumb, instead of determining a reason why someone should have a gun, a reason must be determined why not. That's the effects of having gun ownership as a right.

Isfahan

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I still think education is still probably the best bet. Simply put it a good chunk of Americans have never seen a gun in real life. They only see it in movie theaters and shows where it's used to murder people. So of course they are going to turn around and freak out when a guy buys a bunch of ammo at once, even if he just wants to shoot some clay targets with his pals, because they think he's going to outright murder a whole bunch of people.Keetah Spacecat, April 04, 2013, 12:01:02 am

As with many commodities, ammo is cheaper when you buy in bulk. That's why people buy lots of it at once. I myself bought about 2,000 rounds of 5.45mm for my AK because it cost about six cents per round that way instead of ten cents. I'm down to about 1,200 right now, because I take a couple of hundred rounds to the range with me whenever I want to shoot, and it goes faster than you might think.

Still sometimes I wonder when people say they are using assault rifles to hunt with. It seems like it won't leave you very much left of the animal using one of those over a rifle.

Many hunting rifles are semi-automatic. The vast, vast majority of what people would call "assault rifles" in the US are also semi-auto only. So what's the difference on the business end?

Here's a Ruger Mini-14 with a target stock on it:



Here's an "assault rifle" AR-15:



They both have semi-automatic-only operation and accept detachable clips of varying capacity. In addition, they both shoot the same round:



You have the same bullet coming out of two different clip-fed semi-automatic firearms. So what's the difference? One of them looks scary, like that gun what looks like the one in that war show I seen on the picture boxes they got down there at the Sears. States also have hunting clip restrictions, since it's easier to say you can't hunt with clips over x rounds than it is to specify which guns you can't hunt with by model. They do the same thing for shotguns and waterfowl hunting, often limiting clips to two or three rounds at most.

montrith

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Okay, clearly I have been misinformed. I was under the impression that in the good old US of A anyone could just fill out a form and then BAM! One week later all the guns you want. That's what I get from getting my gun info from TV I guess. I do think that basic gun safety course should be a requisite if a person wants to own and use firearms, so if we're talking about gun ownership in the United States that's something that I think all states should adopt.

Personally, I do understand the appeal of shooting without the intent to harm. I did some shooting with air rifles when I was younger and quite enjoyed it. I was even pretty good at it, a lot better than I was at fencing at least. What keeps me from taking it up again is the fact that there really aren't any ranges just for target practice around here and I don't want to be one of those people who goes into the woods alone to shoot cans. There's already one in my family and it's quite enough, thank you.

Lady Naga

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I want to cause physical harm to gun debates.
chai tea latte cyclopeantrash

icarus

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well montrith there are loopholes

like the gun show loophole. i mean there should be efforts to fix that.

and there are counties and shops that don't follow protocol to the extent they could. so guns DO slip through cracks in the system and get into the hands of people who probably should not have them. above and beyond anything else, i think the ATF should have a larger budget and task force.

not to go banging on your door and taking your guns, but to just...make sure that those shops who don't follow protocol get shut down. to make sure shops get an inspection. currently they don't have the funds or the manpower to do either effectively.

giving the ATF a larger budget might also increase the chances of government sponsored gun education programs. i mean if as part of your gun buying process you had a dvd come home with you that was just like 'care and safety for your new gun' that'd be...at least something. we don't have that now, at least i don't think so. could be wrong.

Isfahan

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The gun-show loophole is real. Some states have closed it at their level, while others haven't. A federal closing of the loophole would stamp it out entirely.

As for giving the ATF a bigger budget... well, every federal institution is clamoring for a bigger budget, and approving more spending at a time like this would be a hard sell. I too want more gun education. I want guns to be demystified. I want people to know why it's goddamn silly to be worried about whether or not a gun has a straight grip or a pistol grip. I want more people to try shooting as a hobby.

Victor Laszlo

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Lady Naga

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Lemon

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Fuck that
Can't we all just get along?
Victor Laszlo, April 04, 2013, 08:50:31 am

Christ, I hope not. We're only on page 4 of this thread and already you're running out of vitriol? I started this thread for a reason, goddamn it. Get back in there.

Lady Naga

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Fuck that
Can't we all just get along?
Victor Laszlo, April 04, 2013, 08:50:31 am

Christ, I hope not. We're only on page 4 of this thread and already you're running out of vitriol?Lemon, April 04, 2013, 09:42:50 am

That's a funny way to spell "boring-ass gun debates"