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Projects => The F Plus => Topic started by: Ambious on April 16, 2014, 09:00:09 pm

Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: Ambious on April 16, 2014, 09:00:09 pm
(I noticed there isn't a thread for this one, so I started one - hope that's ok)

I admit I listen to the F Plus in a pretty random order, so I only now got to this episode and HOLY FUCK!
I mean I've listened to a lot of crazy shit on the F Plus, and this isn't even the craziest, but it made me rage so fucking hard I found myself screaming back at the speakers to shut the fuck up.
I know all about the Tumblr-kind persecution complex1 but this is some next-level shit right there.
I'm a pretty open minded person and I accept all sorts of different people of all races and sexual preference, but the things I heard of in this episode are just 100% bullcrap invented by people who are trying to be special and just keep going ON AND ON about it in made up ways and trying to push it down our throats.
Like the readers though, I completely and absolutely lost my shit in that last segment. I mean people use the word 'holocaust' liberally enough as it is, but holy fuck that stupid asshole just made me curl up in a fetal position and weep that such stupidity even exists. No, I will not talk about the made-up persecution of your (fairly recently) made-up 'sexual orientation' and I will especially not give it any mention anywhere near the topic of the fucking holocaust!
 
1 The joke goes "If somebody says something in the middle of nowhere and nobody is around to hear him say it, does somebody on Tumblr still get offended?". The answer, by the way, is yes.
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: LINDA on April 22, 2014, 03:41:30 am
Haha. I avoided this ep for a while since I'm ace myself and I wasn't familiar with any asexual community with such um... eccentric people. Lo and behold: there are sad, angry outliers in every group.

So many things about some of these people are perplexing to me. The 'worst' part about being ace, in my experience, is just dealing with the occasional person who doesn't get it or thinks they know better than me about myself, like I haven't met the right guy or that I'll change. But we all (especially women) deal with different flavors of that crap. Is being hit on at the pub more annoying because I'm asexual? No, its exactly the same damn brand of annoying as it is for everyone else.

I empathize a bit with the tumblr person rambling about people prioritizing romantic-sexual relationships over others, but to take it to such an embittered, vehement level... and they're probably what, like, 17 right? They have somehow absorbed the bitterness of every single asexual person and attached political rhetoric to it. I'm barely into my 20s and I do dread when it comes time for people in my age group to sequester themselves off with their spouses and pop out babies. It stings when someone you spent time with takes their life in a direction that not only does not include you as much as it did, but that you're indifferent towards on the whole. Because it's true, they are going to value that family unit in a different way than they do their friends. On the other hand, that's what most people do, and we all have the ability to befriend new or different people. It's not a great injustice, it's people living a different lifestyle.

Such ramble, very rant, wow.

Hold on. Most people are wired to want to have sex, I should be offended. I have 20 tumblr rants to draft.
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: Ambious on April 22, 2014, 03:49:50 am
Just to be clear, btw, I'm not saying asexuality is crap - I've known one or two in my life and they were pretty cool and well-rounded people.
But the people featured in this episode are doubtedly actually asexual, or rather they are by choice and are just so fucking self-righteous about it you wanna slap them across the face.
So yeah, eudo, as an asexual you should be as upset about those people as anyone, and I'm glad to see you are.
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: LINDA on April 22, 2014, 03:55:09 am
No worries dude, I got your meaning.

Personally I don't doubt that most of the people featured are asexual, but there's this type who clearly went from 'just realizing their identity' to 'cynical bitter victim' in the span of a week and that is just classic tumblr and certainly merits at least a little skepticism.
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: jimpjorps on April 01, 2016, 09:25:20 am
(extremely asexuals voice) Cornography

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ce8pKXqXEAEVPxK.jpg:large)

https://twitter.com/mashable/status/715836124430745600
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: ClaraTinSoldier on July 02, 2019, 09:48:45 pm
Can  we get another asexual episode?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1ANLOGXcAYOgdK.jpg:large

Because fuck.
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: FinchChunk on July 03, 2019, 06:51:53 am
Can  we get another asexual episode?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1ANLOGXcAYOgdK.jpg:large

Because fuck.
ClaraTinSoldier, July 02, 2019, 09:48:45 pm

I feel like I'm reading pokemon descriptions.

I was Fraysexual for a while in uni. Not proud of it.
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: ClaraTinSoldier on July 03, 2019, 10:00:27 am
I feel like I'm reading pokemon descriptions.

I was Fraysexual for a while in uni. Not proud of it.
FinchChunk, July 03, 2019, 06:51:53 am
What the  hell kind of pokemon games are you playing?
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: birdie on July 03, 2019, 01:22:34 pm
I am increasingly disenchanted with the idea of sexuality as identity these days. Like, can we all just agree that people are attracted to other people on depending on circumstance and traits, and that those traits and circumstances are different (and fluid) for everyone? Like... it seriously isn't that big a deal. It's 2019, date (or don't) who you want.
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: Agent (gobble, gobble) Coop on July 03, 2019, 01:31:51 pm
I am increasingly disenchanted with the idea of sexuality as identity these days. Like, can we all just agree that people are attracted to other people on depending on circumstance and traits, and that those traits and circumstances are different (and fluid) for everyone? Like... it seriously isn't that big a deal. It's 2019, date (or don't) who you want.
birdie, July 03, 2019, 01:22:34 pm
But then what will I post about
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: Emperor Jack Chick on July 03, 2019, 01:38:30 pm
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/straight-pride-parade-straight-pride-parade-clears-first-hurdle-toward-proposed-august-event/

evidently not :(
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: KingKalamari on July 03, 2019, 01:41:55 pm
Can  we get another asexual episode?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1ANLOGXcAYOgdK.jpg:large

Because fuck.
ClaraTinSoldier, July 02, 2019, 09:48:45 pm

This is like what music snobs do with subgenres. What does the "Radiohead and Radiohead-like bands-sexual" flag look like?
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: chai tea latte on July 03, 2019, 03:13:40 pm
Can  we get another asexual episode?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1ANLOGXcAYOgdK.jpg:large

Because fuck.
ClaraTinSoldier, July 02, 2019, 09:48:45 pm

This is like what music snobs do with subgenres. What does the "Radiohead and Radiohead-like bands-sexual" flag look like?
KingKalamari, July 03, 2019, 01:41:55 pm
the cover of OK Computer but it's written ' O Gay Computer'
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: KingKalamari on July 03, 2019, 03:21:35 pm
Can  we get another asexual episode?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1ANLOGXcAYOgdK.jpg:large

Because fuck.
ClaraTinSoldier, July 02, 2019, 09:48:45 pm

This is like what music snobs do with subgenres. What does the "Radiohead and Radiohead-like bands-sexual" flag look like?
KingKalamari, July 03, 2019, 01:41:55 pm
the cover of OK Computer but it's written ' O Gay Computer'
chai tea latte, July 03, 2019, 03:13:40 pm

How did you know my favorite Shakespeare soliloquy?
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: ClaraTinSoldier on July 03, 2019, 06:07:54 pm
I am increasingly disenchanted with the idea of sexuality as identity these days. Like, can we all just agree that people are attracted to other people on depending on circumstance and traits, and that those traits and circumstances are different (and fluid) for everyone? Like... it seriously isn't that big a deal. It's 2019, date (or don't) who you want.
birdie, July 03, 2019, 01:22:34 pm
That's what regular people do. These are not regular people. They're  dweebs on tumblr.  These are the kinds of people who show you pictures of their kids, describe their dreams to you, or talk to you  about their food allergies.  They are people too  boring to cultivate hobbies. So they make up tiresome shit on the internet.
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: Shell Game on July 03, 2019, 06:42:30 pm
I am increasingly disenchanted with the idea of sexuality as identity these days. Like, can we all just agree that people are attracted to other people on depending on circumstance and traits, and that those traits and circumstances are different (and fluid) for everyone? Like... it seriously isn't that big a deal. It's 2019, date (or don't) who you want.
birdie, July 03, 2019, 01:22:34 pm
That's what regular people do. These are not regular people. They're  dweebs on tumblr.  These are the kinds of people who show you pictures of their kids, describe their dreams to you, or talk to you  about their food allergies.  They are people too  boring to cultivate hobbies. So they make up tiresome shit on the internet.
ClaraTinSoldier, July 03, 2019, 06:07:54 pm
I get this is directed at the very very online habit of creating a new identity for hip queer cred, but this is a facile and naive suggestion. LGBT folk didn't set out identifying themselves per se. They were othered, demonized, made wrong due to their sexuality and gender identity. Dunk on net kids who think it's a trend but "can't we move beyond labels" is a busted, useless perspective that does more to villainize queer folk for making their concerns "an issue."

See also "i don't see skin color..."
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: birdie on July 03, 2019, 08:17:21 pm
I am increasingly disenchanted with the idea of sexuality as identity these days. Like, can we all just agree that people are attracted to other people on depending on circumstance and traits, and that those traits and circumstances are different (and fluid) for everyone? Like... it seriously isn't that big a deal. It's 2019, date (or don't) who you want.
birdie, July 03, 2019, 01:22:34 pm
That's what regular people do. These are not regular people. They're  dweebs on tumblr.  These are the kinds of people who show you pictures of their kids, describe their dreams to you, or talk to you  about their food allergies.  They are people too  boring to cultivate hobbies. So they make up tiresome shit on the internet.
ClaraTinSoldier, July 03, 2019, 06:07:54 pm
I get this is directed at the very very online habit of creating a new identity for hip queer cred, but this is a facile and naive suggestion. LGBT folk didn't set out identifying themselves per se. They were othered, demonized, made wrong due to their sexuality and gender identity. Dunk on net kids who think it's a trend but "can't we move beyond labels" is a busted, useless perspective that does more to villainize queer folk for making their concerns "an issue."

See also "i don't see skin color..."
Shell Game, July 03, 2019, 06:42:30 pm

I suppose so. My feelings here are very obviously colored by my own, relatively privileged experiences with sexuality. Despite the fact that I date both genders, I struggle to feel like I'm part of the lgbtq+ community, because... it's not really something that defines me. I've never really been in a place where I faced anything more than rude comments about it, and I have enough support network to just go "wow, what a douche" and move on. I know logically that it isn't like that for everyone, but I often feel like I don't really "belong" when pride etc come up, because my sexuality just isn't a significant part of how I think about myself.
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: TheCrawlingChaos on October 24, 2019, 06:23:07 pm
In light of the fact that even in real-life queer spaces the mentality of "asexuality is not necessarily a queer identity that needs to be hugely prioritized in the grand scheme of things, and don't even get me started on shit like demisexuality and aromanticism" is quickly becoming solely associated with shitty TERFs who think that gold-star lesbians are the only people who actually deserve the queer community, I am so glad I can go back and listen to this episode to stay sane. Thanks, The F Plus.
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: Adam Bozarth on October 25, 2019, 09:31:40 am
Asexuals taught me it is as funny to talk about how much sex you’re NOT having as it is to talk about how much sex you have had.

Asexuals deserve love, respect, and cake.

Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: KingKalamari on October 25, 2019, 11:26:57 am
In light of the fact that even in real-life queer spaces the mentality of "asexuality is not necessarily a queer identity that needs to be hugely prioritized in the grand scheme of things, and don't even get me started on shit like demisexuality and aromanticism" is quickly becoming solely associated with shitty TERFs who think that gold-star lesbians are the only people who actually deserve the queer community, I am so glad I can go back and listen to this episode to stay sane. Thanks, The F Plus.
TheCrawlingChaos, October 24, 2019, 06:23:07 pm

That reminds me: I was recently reading this old article on Medium (https://medium.com/@keisisqrl/dear-fellow-trans-people-lay-off-otherkin-9787ccf6725c), in which the author argues that trans individuals should be equally as accepting of otherkin identities and not accuse them of "appropriating" trans terminology and identity, which I feel kind of bumps up against the same kind of black and white mindset you're talking about.

It feels a bit akin to the Geek Social Fallacies (http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html), only applied within groups of actual, marginalized individuals.
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: Shell Game on October 25, 2019, 11:44:24 am
In light of the fact that even in real-life queer spaces the mentality of "asexuality is not necessarily a queer identity that needs to be hugely prioritized in the grand scheme of things, and don't even get me started on shit like demisexuality and aromanticism" is quickly becoming solely associated with shitty TERFs who think that gold-star lesbians are the only people who actually deserve the queer community, I am so glad I can go back and listen to this episode to stay sane. Thanks, The F Plus.
TheCrawlingChaos, October 24, 2019, 06:23:07 pm

That reminds me: I was recently reading this old article on Medium (https://medium.com/@keisisqrl/dear-fellow-trans-people-lay-off-otherkin-9787ccf6725c), in which the author argues that trans individuals should be equally as accepting of otherkin identities and not accuse them of "appropriating" trans terminology and identity, which I feel kind of bumps up against the same kind of black and white mindset you're talking about.

It feels a bit akin to the Geek Social Fallacies (http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html), only applied within groups of actual, marginalized individuals.
KingKalamari, October 25, 2019, 11:26:57 am
YEAH THAT ATTITUDE IS STILL OUT THERE AND IT FUCKING SUCKS.

Hi. :)
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: TheCrawlingChaos on October 25, 2019, 01:32:47 pm
In light of the fact that even in real-life queer spaces the mentality of "asexuality is not necessarily a queer identity that needs to be hugely prioritized in the grand scheme of things, and don't even get me started on shit like demisexuality and aromanticism" is quickly becoming solely associated with shitty TERFs who think that gold-star lesbians are the only people who actually deserve the queer community, I am so glad I can go back and listen to this episode to stay sane. Thanks, The F Plus.
TheCrawlingChaos, October 24, 2019, 06:23:07 pm

That reminds me: I was recently reading this old article on Medium (https://medium.com/@keisisqrl/dear-fellow-trans-people-lay-off-otherkin-9787ccf6725c), in which the author argues that trans individuals should be equally as accepting of otherkin identities and not accuse them of "appropriating" trans terminology and identity, which I feel kind of bumps up against the same kind of black and white mindset you're talking about.

It feels a bit akin to the Geek Social Fallacies (http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html), only applied within groups of actual, marginalized individuals.
KingKalamari, October 25, 2019, 11:26:57 am

I was actually tossing around the GSF comparison a couple days back, so thank you for putting that into words. It's especially infuriating to me when it gets used to guilt bi and trans people into "the mean gays and lesbians don't want any of us in the community, so we all need to stick together!" Sadly, it seems to be working, with otherwise sane people in those groups (and gay dudes/lesbians who don't want to be seen as stodgy bigots) being like "why do you hate asexuals? We're so much stronger together!" Like... leaving aside anecdata about condoms being hidden in queer resource centers to keep from offending asexuals (which I am a big enough person to admit is solely anecdata from where I'm standing) what exactly makes a community stronger just by expanding the parameters of who's defined as part of it? Surely the asexuals (and kinksters and poly people and...) who would already be in favor of queer issues would still be supportive, and those who are basically using it as a smokescreen to be huge homophobes wouldn't, but then I guess they wouldn't get to feel better than those gross cishet ~allies~ who are probably just in it for the buttpats from people with actual problems.
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: Shell Game on October 27, 2019, 08:26:48 am
I've said this before elsewhere but i sincerely believe our downfall was creating a movement centered on self-identifying language. There's ofc merit to the freedom to express one's experience succinctly and be taken seriously, however we put so much power solely in theory over lived experiences and conditions it was only a matter of time before the apparatus was co-opted by people who think all experiences are theirs to try on. Like when white new agers determine it's their religious right to traipse into native sacred places: despite them not also having a historical connection to the land, the technicalities of vague legal and social restrictions make for equivocation to be made between the groups because, technically, they both hold spiritual beliefs that must be honored. We'll just set aside the lived experience of having land, life and culture devalued and robbed at every turn and operate on the false notion of equality being measured from a baseline for all peoples. Honestly this is exactly how appropriation works, and it works REALLY WELL.

Tl;dr we've once against ignored the base to prioritize the superstructure.
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: xX_sp00ks_Xx on October 27, 2019, 12:04:20 pm
I've said this before elsewhere but i sincerely believe our downfall was creating a movement centered on self-identifying language.Shell Game, October 27, 2019, 08:26:48 am

Martin Luther emphatically not nailing the 95 genders on the wall.
Title: Episode 70: The Ace and Cakes
Post by: TheCrawlingChaos on October 31, 2019, 01:43:37 pm
I've said this before elsewhere but i sincerely believe our downfall was creating a movement centered on self-identifying language. There's ofc merit to the freedom to express one's experience succinctly and be taken seriously, however we put so much power solely in theory over lived experiences and conditions it was only a matter of time before the apparatus was co-opted by people who think all experiences are theirs to try on. Like when white new agers determine it's their religious right to traipse into native sacred places: despite them not also having a historical connection to the land, the technicalities of vague legal and social restrictions make for equivocation to be made between the groups because, technically, they both hold spiritual beliefs that must be honored. We'll just set aside the lived experience of having land, life and culture devalued and robbed at every turn and operate on the false notion of equality being measured from a baseline for all peoples. Honestly this is exactly how appropriation works, and it works REALLY WELL.

Tl;dr we've once against ignored the base to prioritize the superstructure.
Shell Game, October 27, 2019, 08:26:48 am

And yet the vast majority of asexual=queer types would fall over themselves to be angry at white New Agers tramping all over native spaces while vociferously denying there's any resemblance between the things you mention. The ironing is delicious.