ballp.it
Snakes In The Ball Pit => How I choose to spend my time => TeeVee => Topic started by: Lemon on January 01, 2014, 10:06:15 pm
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...and 90 minutes later, I wish he stayed dead.
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I've only seen the first episode of the show so I have no idea what's happening, but it seems to have pissed off enough Tumblr fangirls to get the ever popular "wank for TS" (http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/wank-for-ts) tag poppin'.
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I have absolutely nothing against Sherlock himself, but Sherlock+Tumblr is always a recipe for stupid.
Queerbaiting hurts because it’s just authors fucking mocking you for daring to hope that queer subtext might lead to explicit canon queer characters but “nope no representation for you you silly queers it might make cishet people uncomfortable and we value them more”
Apparently somebody posted spoilers in the wrong tags and now there's a witch hunt.
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Someone please spoil for me whatever has pissed off the Tumblr fangirls, then, because I don't watch the show but I really like the idea of angry fangirls.
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SPOILERS
one of the "how he faked it" scenarios that various characters were coming up with was that Sherlock and Moriarty were in on it together and were secret boyfriends.
I laughed like the huge cunt I am.
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There's also the bit where John explicitly says Sherlock was never his boyfriend. I'm sure that's pissed off plenty of people, especially given the earlier freak out over Martin Freeman's comment about the pairing never happening in the show.
On top of slash-mocking stuff, they also dedicated a fair portion of the episode to making fun of the theories people came up with about how he survived that fall.
As much as I understand the desire to make fun of Sherlock fans, it really isn't something that should have been included in the (already struggling) episode. The end result was like what you'd get if you took someone's crappy fanfic, combined it with a bunch of tumblr posts, and then had it acted out by the actual actors. It was that bad.
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I'm not going to defend it, but I did have a lot of fun watching it. Not sure what Moffat"s thing is with Derren Brown (there was also a joke reference to him in the Doctor Who 50th) but based on context I'm assuming he's the British Criss Angel.
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Someone please spoil for me whatever has pissed off the Tumblr fangirls, then, because I don't watch the show but I really like the idea of angry fangirls.
Isfahan, January 02, 2014, 05:29:33 pm
This, please. I didn't care to watch Sherlock beyond the introduction of Moriarty and for some reason fans of British shows are like the spoilers gestapo.
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I'm actually really surprised that the fangirls responded so poorly, because that episode really was a love letter to the internet. Just about the entire 90 minutes was a direct response to the Tumblr People (#SherlockIsAlive), and Holmes actually has a girlfriend who actively encourages the two to be together.
After informing Watson that he's not dead, he then just randomly tells everybody else, because this whole suicide contrivance was a narrative dead end, so they just plowed through someone's house. The show spends at least half the run time mentioning and then dismissing possible ways Sherlock would have faked his death, to absolutely no end. You wanna skip explanation entirely? Fine. But there was never a 20 minute scene where Vincent and Jules talk about the various things which are not in the briefcase.
Hearing and dismissing rumors that Sherlock is alive, DI Lestrade (yes! THAT Lestrade!) is smoking in a parking ramp when a voice from the darkness says "Careful! Those things will kill you!"
Thinking he could probably do worse, Sherlock later says "Killing me? That was so two years ago!"
Later Sherlock learns about this strange thing the Hu-Mans call love, and there's a hilarious punchline about an off-switch.
This was pretty much a CBS police procedural with English accents.
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After informing Watson that he's not dead, he then just randomly tells everybody else, because this whole suicide contrivance was a narrative dead end, so they just plowed through someone's house.
Lemon, January 03, 2014, 08:25:53 pm
I don't understand why they didn't just stick with the basic explanation from the actual story and just have the one final remnant of Moriarty's network still out to kill him, with the plot of the episode dedicated to resolving that problem. There was plenty of room to shake up the specifics of the story to make it distinct from the original.
And frankly, way too many damn people knew he wasn't dead already. Mycroft? Sure. His parents? Maybe... but surely they should have at least pretended to go to the funeral? And that's not even getting into the 20+ random homeless people who were in on the secret and never let it slip to anyone during the two years that passed.
Later Sherlock learns about this strange thing the Hu-Mans call love, and there's a hilarious punchline about an off-switch.
The crap about Sherlock not understanding human nature drove me nuts. A Sherlock Holmes who doesn't understand human nature is like a Poirot who doesn't understand psychology or a Nero Wolfe who doesn't understand orchids. He's often a dick, sure, but it doesn't come from a lack of understanding of people, and he's shown executing plans that require an intimate understanding of people and how they work all the damn time. He's done it in this version, even!
This was pretty much a CBS police procedural with English accents.
Bah, even the dumber episodes of Elementary are infinitely better than this.
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Ah. Thanks for the mansplanation. Indeed, trying to please the internet with your show is a move that usually results in a fuckup (House MD).
The crap about Sherlock not understanding human nature drove me nuts. A Sherlock Holmes who doesn't understand human nature is like a Poirot who doesn't understand psychology or a Nero Wolfe who doesn't understand orchids. He's often a dick, sure, but it doesn't come from a lack of understanding of people, and he's shown executing plans that require an intimate understanding of people and how they work all the damn time. He's done it in this version, even!Moriarty, January 03, 2014, 08:55:15 pm
But if all his romantic issues come from not understanding love then a fangirl can write a fanfic in which she helps him get to know the wonders of love with either her self-insert or with Watson or both. Who cares about the job of Sherlock as a detective? How many fanfics do you think ever actually involve any fucking kind of mystery for him to investigate? No, it is all about looking into those dreamy eyes and whispering "I want your knot."
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A Sherlock Holmes who doesn't understand human nature is like a Poirot who doesn't understand psychology or a Nero Wolfe who doesn't understand orchids.
Moriarty, January 03, 2014, 08:55:15 pm
The weird thing is, after watching that episode, I went online looking for someone to blame. Community went to shit because they fired Dan Harmon, surely someone was airdropped into the writer's room to cause something this awful to be tacked onto a show that was otherwise doing a pretty good job of hitting the mark, but that totally doesn't seem to be the case. It's the same writers, the same directors, the same cast, the same ratings even. There's really no clear indicator of what the fuck happened here.
What I'm saying is, I'm probably going to watch the second episode really soon now, and I'm kind of dreading it.
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Ohhhhhhhhhhh fuck that.
I made it three minutes in. That was enough to know I need to stop.
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Ohhhhhhhhhhh fuck that.
I made it three minutes in. That was enough to know I need to stop.
Lemon, January 06, 2014, 08:15:47 pm
No, damn you, I will not be the only one who suffered through this thing. You didn't even get to the part where Sherlock *spoiler* spends 90% of the episode giving a horrible speech. *end spoiler*
People are declaring it the best episode of the series.
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I will not be the only one who suffered through this thing.
Moriarty, January 06, 2014, 09:33:50 pm
You really have only yourself to blame for his. The cold open has Lestrade (yes! THAT Lestrade!) running to answer a text message from a distressed Sherlock conveying an expression of urgency. When Lestrade gets to Baker Street, it turns out that the matter Sherlock felt was urgent wasn't actually urgent at all! Classic mislead, smash cut.
You watched that garbage, and you thought to yourself "You know? I'm gonna see where it goes from here" So you deserve everything that happened to you afterwards.
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You really have only yourself to blame for his. The cold open has Lestrade (yes! THAT Lestrade!) running to answer a text message from a distressed Sherlock conveying an expression of urgency. When Lestrade gets to Baker Street, it turns out that the matter Sherlock felt was urgent wasn't actually urgent at all! Classic mislead, smash cut.
Lemon, January 06, 2014, 09:56:20 pm
Hey, at least that mislead was purposeful! It's nothing compared to the two times they actually tried to start a better episode and then just gave up (you know how Sherlock Holmes sometimes just leaves mysterious, seemingly impossible cases unsolved and doesn't really care at all? No? Well, too bad.)
You watched that garbage, and you thought to yourself "You know? I'm gonna see where it goes from here" So you deserve everything that happened to you afterwards.
It entranced me with its awfulness.
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Hey, at least that mislead was purposeful! It's nothing compared to the two times they actually tried to start a better episode and then just gave up (you know how Sherlock Holmes sometimes just leaves mysterious, seemingly impossible cases unsolved and doesn't really care at all? No? Well, too bad.)
Moriarty, January 06, 2014, 10:17:41 pm
Writing an interesting case is haaaaard. Why bother with that when the fans can be satisfied with drama, fanservice to their romantic ideas and scenes in which the charismatic main characters acts like the lovable asshole that they love?
You can spend days working on a complicated case fitting for the incredible skills of the main character oooooorh you can do something that will please the fans just as much and requires only the characterisation that made the show popular and that can be written in a straightforward manner. Both options get you paid and both will please the fanbase.
And for the few who complain there will be one or two cases later in the season, what more could they ask for?
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Oh good I was wondering when Sherlock would become Doctor Who: No Spacemen Edition.
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There was a montage of Sherlock getting punched in the first episode.
I got what I came for.
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Oh good I was wondering when Sherlock would become Doctor Who: No Spacemen Edition.
EYE OF ZA, January 08, 2014, 09:09:19 pm
So just Daleks then?
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Oh good I was wondering when Sherlock would become Doctor Who: No Spacemen Edition.
EYE OF ZA, January 08, 2014, 09:09:19 pm
So just Daleks then?
THE TRUE JUICE, January 08, 2014, 11:20:51 pm
cummberbatch is more a sontaran or an ood
daleks are weird looking creatures but they do travel inside rather sleek and not-terrible-looking robotic casings
whereas benedict, god bless him, has to wear that face in public all the time
EDIT: I was extravagantly drunk when I wrote this post but in retrospect I stick by my assessment.
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Okay, at least this one had a damn plot and kept moving the majority of the time. Though I'm kind of annoyed that Sherlock *spoilers*turned out to be a Horcrux.*end spoilers*
Also, they really need to lay off the "I'm a high functioning sociopath~~!!!" bullshit. Sherlock Holmes is not a 12-year-old with a tumblr.
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Sherlock Holmes is not a 12-year-old with a tumblr.
Moriarty, January 12, 2014, 08:40:52 pm
And yet I would finance that pitch.
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Also, they really need to lay off the "I'm a high functioning sociopath~~!!!" bullshit. Sherlock Holmes is not a 12-year-old with a tumblr.
Moriarty, January 12, 2014, 08:40:52 pm
No, but he makes a very definite effort to maintain an image with other people. I think it's his way of keeping people at arm's length, particularly in this version. I mean, he's a douche and he's clearly deleted a bunch of social scripts in favor of ballistics and chemistry and whatnot, but it's probably an extra measure to make sure nobody tries to get too close. Kind of like Fat Amy from Pitch Perfect.
EDIT:
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/eb93f0b357194003acaf57100d2ff50a/tumblr_mzb8dl3lyU1to7u1vo1_500.jpg)
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why im angry crying right now
Im fucking furious at Moffat right now, and tears of frustration are literally rolling off my face. Its not that im being a spoilt brat about my ship not being canon- but i feel like that episode (hell, this series) could have been SO. MUCH. MORE.
I’m angry crying right now because for the last two years, this show has been my getaway. Its been my escape, my main occupant. The amazing fans and fanfics and art and /love/ we all share for the show has made me happier than I could imagine. Its helped me through bad times and the rest, and i really felt like i got to know Sherlock and John. I felt like i knew them through and through, and they were friends to me in a way. This series ripped that from me. Bad characterisation, scripts that can’t take themselves seriously and desperate plot twists with no soul have made this a terrible experience for me. I feel genuinely sick to my core.
Im angry crying because i feel like the show that has helped me so much was shit on, topped with bad jokes, OOCness and ~~no homo~~ blasted in our faces. That piece of shit was shoved into my face and Im supposed to enjoy it, because it was once something i held very dear.
I feel like I’ve lost a friend. I don’t know how to feel, and i just don’t CARE about the characters anymore. Because the writers don’t.
I’ve lost a huge chunk of my life tonight, and while its only a tv show, its gotten me through so much. I don’t have that anymore.
I need to lie down.
#spoilers#negativity#orla rants#im actually so dsmn upset
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Sounds like Sherlock's gotten the "Okay, we've got them hooked. Now we don't have to give a shit anymore." Moffat treatment.
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why im angry crying right now
Im fucking furious at Moffat right now, and tears of frustration are literally rolling off my face. Its not that im being a spoilt brat about my ship not being canon- but i feel like that episode (hell, this series) could have been SO. MUCH. MORE.
I’m angry crying right now because for the last two years, this show has been my getaway. Its been my escape, my main occupant. The amazing fans and fanfics and art and /love/ we all share for the show has made me happier than I could imagine. Its helped me through bad times and the rest, and i really felt like i got to know Sherlock and John. I felt like i knew them through and through, and they were friends to me in a way. This series ripped that from me. Bad characterisation, scripts that can’t take themselves seriously and desperate plot twists with no soul have made this a terrible experience for me. I feel genuinely sick to my core.
Im angry crying because i feel like the show that has helped me so much was shit on, topped with bad jokes, OOCness and ~~no homo~~ blasted in our faces. That piece of shit was shoved into my face and Im supposed to enjoy it, because it was once something i held very dear.
I feel like I’ve lost a friend. I don’t know how to feel, and i just don’t CARE about the characters anymore. Because the writers don’t.
I’ve lost a huge chunk of my life tonight, and while its only a tv show, its gotten me through so much. I don’t have that anymore.
I need to lie down.
#spoilers#negativity#orla rants#im actually so dsmn upset
Garbage Dacey, January 13, 2014, 02:14:07 am
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_la1knl2sKb1qcbvi6.jpg)
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"Don't appall me when I'm high" is, I'm pretty sure, what I said verbatim to Juice after we'd discovered that I can't handle the sight of Nicolas Cage when I'm intoxicated.
We're going to need a goddamn keg to catch all the sweet, sweet nerd tears.
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Glorious Tumblr tears
Garbage Dacey, January 13, 2014, 02:14:07 am
Just to make sure... all of that stemmed just from Sherlock being made canon notgay, correct?
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Just to make sure... all of that stemmed just from Sherlock being made canon notgay, correct?
Isfahan, January 13, 2014, 03:04:08 pm
To be fair, some of that wailing is because the third series is written terribly. Although the flagrant heterosexuality is likely the straw on the camel.
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Just to make sure... all of that stemmed just from Sherlock being made canon notgay, correct?
Isfahan, January 13, 2014, 03:04:08 pm
I think more from the fact that one half of the fandom's main couple married a lady who didn't end up dead or divorced. The jury seems to still be out on Sherlock himself.
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I'll accept that as just about as funny. I especially like all the revisionist "now that I think about it, the show's never been that great" subtext to it too.
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Maybe now the worst of the weirdos will move off to a new show or flee back to Supernatural and I can go back to enjoying this shit in peace and quiet.
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Just to make sure... all of that stemmed just from Sherlock being made canon notgay, correct?
Isfahan, January 13, 2014, 03:04:08 pm
I think more from the fact that one half of the fandom's main couple married a lady who didn't end up dead or divorced. The jury seems to still be out on Sherlock himself.
Cuddlesquid, January 13, 2014, 04:01:43 pm
There are actually people who think yesterday's show confirmed Sherlock as gay. Of course, there are also people who think that the lighting in a random scene from last week's episode conclusively proves that Watson is bisexual (http://alabellecreation.tumblr.com/post/72762561549/the-sign-of-three-visually-tells-us-that-john-swings).
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Regardless of the shows' contents, Moffat has done and said some pretty shitty things (http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/steven-moffat-sexism-sherlock-doctor-who/).
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I haven't kept up with the latest Doctor Who but it did start bothering me that every one of the people who tagged along with him were right out of Joss Whedon's wet dreams.
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Like I said in another thread, I've been reatching Pertwee-era Doctor Who. Man, I'd forgotten how much it actually treats the viewer like an intelligent being with a sense of imagination and the ability to recall and synthesize information without having every single fucking callback explicitly spelled-out.
Also, as stodgy as the cinematography was in later old Who, Spearhead from Space has some absolutely brilliant camerawork and framing.
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Spearhead from Space
fluffy, January 15, 2014, 12:55:00 am
I always knew they couldn't be from this planet.
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I tried to watch season three.
I got less than four minutes in.
e: martin freeman should never wear a moustache
e2: actually no yeah this works for me
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After watching the first episode of the new series ... eventually, Sherlock fell pretty solidly into 'I'll watch the rest at some point' territory. I always thought Mark Gatiss' episodes in the previous series were the weak link overall (he should go back to comedy and spooky radio voices) but the response of Lemon and Moriarty here make me suspect things aren't going to perk up for the other two episodes. It's a shame, because the first series absolutely thrilled me and made me receptive to looking at interpretations of the Doyle stories outside of my comfort zone (I grew up with Basil Rathbone as my Sherlock Holmes and have always been reticent to other actors' approach to the role) and made me excited for a new episode. But instead of firing the viewer up with excitement after the long hiatus, it was just shallow and flat and faintly disappointing at best.
It's been suggested by a friend that they decided to start really channeling Doyle here and in resurrecting Sherlock Holmes have just stopped giving any fucks and are now in it just for the money.
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It's a shame, because the first series absolutely thrilled me and made me receptive to looking at interpretations of the Doyle stories outside of my comfort zone (I grew up with Basil Rathbone as my Sherlock Holmes and have always been reticent to other actors' approach to the role) and made me excited for a new episode.
advancedclass, January 27, 2014, 04:58:40 pm
If you're actually interested in some different interpretations, watch the old Soviet ones with Vasily Livanov as Holmes and report back. He's fantastic.
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If you're actually interested in some different interpretations, watch the old Soviet ones with Vasily Livanov as Holmes and report back. He's fantastic.
kal-elk, January 27, 2014, 06:25:45 pm
A quick prod around Wikipedia and this is definitely something I've got to look into the next time I can get some buddies together for some Sherlock Holmes watching! Thanks for the rec, kal-elk!
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(I grew up with Basil Rathbone as my Sherlock Holmes and have always been reticent to other actors' approach to the role)
advancedclass, January 27, 2014, 04:58:40 pm
I've always been a Jeremy Brett fan, which might explain why I regularly wanted to punch Cumberbatch's Holmes repeatedly in the face.
Personally, I happen to think the version of Holmes on Elementary is more human and realistic take on the Holmes mythos, although it's definitely a CBS show that takes clear liberties with the canon.
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Personally, I happen to think the version of Holmes on Elementary is more human and realistic take on the Holmes mythos, although it's definitely a CBS show that takes clear liberties with the canon.
sherlockian, January 28, 2014, 12:53:50 am
'sup Elementary appreciating bro! I was trying to figure out how to mention this in my earlier post but figured it was already incoherent and the product of severe sleep deprivation. I agree totally. Cumberbatch's Holmes is very punchable (so at least one part of The Empty Hearse was hugely enjoyable) and I think isolates some of Holmes' less appealing qualities and really dials them up to 11 while losing the human element, which I think is a choice that cuts your narrative potential off. You can't really feel for him or the people around them in a real way.
Miller's Holmes on Elementary is flawed and awkward and frequently aggravating to the people around him while still being human in a way that's very true to canon, I think.
Also his profile is far more Holmes. Cumberbatch's nose is all wrong.