ballp.it
Snakes In The Ball Pit => Yay, I get to talk about me! => Topic started by: crow on May 11, 2014, 09:22:35 pm
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Apparently this is a thing? I don't understand it. I'm a jealous bastard as it is, I don't need any competition. Another thing is the country mentality in me. If my younger sister told me that her boyfriend asked for an open relationship/polyamory, me and my dad would pack up and beat the shit out of this dude. Some people, however, love it and think it's the only way to treat your partner like an adult. What do you think? Is it good, bad or in between? Why would someone agree to it?
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I don't know. A relationship with one person is hard enough, I can't imagine doubling up on it. I don't have anything against people who do it, but I really can't see the attraction.
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My ex wanted to be in a romantically exclusive, sexually open relationship.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think that's worse than just straight-up polyamory. Too controlling to be okay with us having feelings with other people, but still wanted the cherry on top of sleeping with other people.
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I am currently engaged to somebody who lives over two thousand miles away from me.
We don't get to see each other all that often, much less have sex with one another, so we both agreed that we should allow one another to casually date other people. We had periods of jealousy about the idea earlier in our relationship, but eventually we both agreed that our relationship is serious enough and that we love one another enough to not worry that somebody else might steal us away. So far - not to over-share or anything - it's worked out pretty well for us.
I definitely agree with people who have their reservations about it; it's definitely not for everyone, and there's definitely no shame in being jealous about your partner's sex life, as long as it doesn't cross over into inappropriate possessiveness. Also, my situation is definitely not the norm even for polyamorous people, but I'd imagine that the rationale of "we like sex and our relationship will not collapse in on itself if we have it with other people" is pretty much the same for the majority. If you and your partner both know that your relationship can withstand it, I'd definitely recommend that you give it a shot.
PS: Ansemaru, your ex sounds like a dick. That's not how polyamory works. Nobody should go along with that.
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I've known several people with long-term polyamorous relationships and the thing I've really taken away from it is that despite it usually being portrayed as some kind of crazy free-love thing, in actuality it's a huge amount of work for everyone involved and practically takes scheduling to work. It's very much about figuring out how to find the best possible compromise for what they everyone wants in the relationship, whether it's in terms of what kind of sexual things happen between two members or all of them, or who can see who when, or if they all move in together or if only some of them can live together on a regular basis or if they can only visit on occasion. I remember hearing someone say once that a polyamorous relationship they were in eventually broke up because they couldn't all fit comfortably in the bed together and none of them wanted to make someone sleep on the floor.
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PS: Ansemaru, your ex sounds like a dick. That's not how polyamory works. Nobody should go along with that.
Mister Smalls, May 11, 2014, 10:55:37 pm
Yeah, I retroactively realized that it was really fucked up that I did go along with it at the time and didn't call her out on it or do anything about it. At the time, I thought it was the loving, respectful thing to do- because she was a person who was so kind and gracious as to put up with being in a relationship with me that she deserved the privilege of being able to sleep with other people.
Which is really not a healthy way to approach a relationship with another human being.
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I'm a hippyish free love person and I'm not ashamed of it. I think the reason for me being like that is coming from a very conservative "family values" country, and slowly realizing how oppressive this ideology is. I never understood people who talk about a relationship the same way they do about a job. If you follow the traditional monogamous lifestyle there is nothing wrong with it, however when people act that the ones who don't accept it are "crazy" I tell them to fuck off. The jealousy, the idea of being the "only one", the concept of being faithful - it's all in your head.
If you are the kind of a person who says you have to put "a lot of work" into a relationship and irons a suit before each date with his girlfriend, then you'll never understand me. If a relationship feels like a job for you then you should take a long hard look at it and think whether it's worth pursuing. Realize that the way society has conditioned you to perceive human sexuality is not the only one. It's silly to suggest that everyone should follow the same model, giving the huge differences in personality, libido, levels of communication etc. between different human beings. It's worrying how such judgmental ideas are so widely accepted against supposedly liberal people.
If my younger sister told me that her boyfriend asked for an open relationship/polyamory, me and my dad would pack up and beat the shit out of this dude.
Smoking Crow, May 11, 2014, 09:22:35 pm
You can be against polyamory all you want, but this is fucking creepy. Would you have behaved the same way if this was your younger brother? The idea that "women are innocent snowflakes who should be protected" is sexist, no two ways about it. "My dumb sister cannot make the right decision for herself, time for REAL MEN to do it for her".
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You can be against polyamory all you want, but this is fucking creepy. Would you have behaved the same way if this was your younger brother? The idea that "women are innocent snowflakes who should be protected" is sexist, no two ways about it. "My dumb sister cannot make the right decision for herself, time for REAL MEN to do it for her".
Aevi, May 12, 2014, 01:02:42 am
While I agree to an extent, I don't know that we need to be putting words into Smoking Crow's mouth.
I am a bit curious as to why violence would be the immediate reaction, though. And to pose a question related to Aevi's: How would you feel if your sister told you that she proposed the idea of an open relationship to her boyfriend?
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Sorry if I overreacted, but many dads and brothers say things like this "ironically", and it makes you wonder how ironic they really are.
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I agree that the appeal of it is totally foreign to me. I'm not a jealous person and I can more than handle a guy commenting on the attractiveness of other women, but there is a definite line. Likewise, having sex or a romantic relationship with someone who isn't my bf would just feel wrong and gross even if I had his permission.
But then I don't get the appeal of a lot of things. I'm just super vanilla and as long as no one's trying to convince me that I have to be into poly/BDSM/gender play/whatever the hell else to be a fulfilled human being, they can go on and enjoy whatever adventure they're currently on and I won't judge them out loud unless it's particularly hilarious.
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People get into nonmonogamous relationships because they a) want to be in a relationship and b) don't buy into the traditional narratives of what relationships need to look like (i.e. monogamy). This is, I think, actually pretty reasonable! There are all sorts of reasons to question normative relationship scripts, and it's not inconceivable that some people who question whether or not these narratives are right for them might eventually decide that no, they don't think they are.
So polyamory comes from people looking at 'a man and a woman date, then eventually marry and have children' and responding that they think it's unnecessarily restrictive. And it is! The queer movement has fairly successfully pointed out that it's possible to contravene this diktat and live a happy, fulfilled life. And so we get, I think, a polyamory (as distinct from the general case of nonmonogamy) which is inherently antihegemonic, in design if not always in practice. The poly people I know tend to stress that 'open relationship' and 'nonmonogamous relationship' often function differently - a poly relationship is a relationship like any other, but potentially one with more people in it.
Knowing whether or not any particular relationship structure would work for you (or your sister, or your father) isn't the same as knowing if a particular relationship structure is equitable and just. And there's no specific reason, besides jealousy, that polyamory should necessarily be inequitable or unjust. Poly relationships seem to fail for the same reasons that monogamous ones do (albeit writ larger), and the people who claim they work for them tend to either say that jealousy isn't really a concern or that they have mechanisms (regular processing sessions is one I've seen a few times) to address potential jealousy before it can become an issue. Sometimes (often?) this all crashes and burns because people went 'aha, I don't need the master narrative!' but forgot to learn how to actually be in a relationship along the way.
(also you get to have sex with someone other than your partner without it necessarily causing trouble, so i'm sure that's a draw too)
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Sorry if I overreacted, but many dads and brothers say things like this "ironically", and it makes you wonder how ironic they really are.
Aevi, May 12, 2014, 01:09:56 am
Naw. Most people who threaten violence even ironically like to talk the talk but haven't the balls to walk that particular walk. They'd probably like to do it but can't muster the nerve to really act out that particular impulse.
I say that as a person who threatens cartoon violence frequently.
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Live an let love I say, as a person who doesn't really get the appeal. All the talk about successful poly relationships just makes it seem like "Committee meeting, the relationship" to me, which is kind of confusing considering polyamory is often connected the the whole "free love" thing. Still, as long as everyone is a consenting adult with all their mental faculties, I couldn't give a toss about what goes on in your bedroom/s.
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Disclaimer: I grew up in the rural South, and I am a first generation non-farmer, second generation without a dowry.
If my younger sister told me that her boyfriend asked for an open relationship/polyamory, me and my dad would pack up and beat the shit out of this dude.
Smoking Crow, May 11, 2014, 09:22:35 pm
You can be against polyamory all you want, but this is fucking creepy. Would you have behaved the same way if this was your younger brother? The idea that "women are innocent snowflakes who should be protected" is sexist, no two ways about it. "My dumb sister cannot make the right decision for herself, time for REAL MEN to do it for her".
Aevi, May 12, 2014, 01:02:42 am
If my younger brother brought this up to me, I'd make fun of him for being shitty in bed.
You can be against polyamory all you want, but this is fucking creepy. Would you have behaved the same way if this was your younger brother? The idea that "women are innocent snowflakes who should be protected" is sexist, no two ways about it. "My dumb sister cannot make the right decision for herself, time for REAL MEN to do it for her".
Aevi, May 12, 2014, 01:02:42 am
While I agree to an extent, I don't know that we need to be putting words into Smoking Crow's mouth.
I am a bit curious as to why violence would be the immediate reaction, though. And to pose a question related to Aevi's: How would you feel if your sister told you that she proposed the idea of an open relationship to her boyfriend?
Mister Smalls, May 12, 2014, 01:05:47 am
A beating is the response to adultery. I cannot fathom why someone would decide at some point other than the beginning of the relationship to fuck other people unless they were already cheating. Custom dictates that if your female relative's boyfriend/husband cheats on her, you round up a group of male family members and beat him up, on her discretion. If my sister told me that she popped it to her boyfriend, I would open my Bible and show her the verses that condemn adultery. If you have sex with someone that isn't your significant other, that's adultery.
People get into nonmonogamous relationships because they a) want to be in a relationship and b) don't buy into the traditional narratives of what relationships need to look like (i.e. monogamy). This is, I think, actually pretty reasonable! There are all sorts of reasons to question normative relationship scripts, and it's not inconceivable that some people who question whether or not these narratives are right for them might eventually decide that no, they don't think they are.
So polyamory comes from people looking at 'a man and a woman date, then eventually marry and have children' and responding that they think it's unnecessarily restrictive. And it is! The queer movement has fairly successfully pointed out that it's possible to contravene this diktat and live a happy, fulfilled life. And so we get, I think, a polyamory (as distinct from the general case of nonmonogamy) which is inherently antihegemonic, in design if not always in practice. The poly people I know tend to stress that 'open relationship' and 'nonmonogamous relationship' often function differently - a poly relationship is a relationship like any other, but potentially one with more people in it.
Knowing whether or not any particular relationship structure would work for you (or your sister, or your father) isn't the same as knowing if a particular relationship structure is equitable and just. And there's no specific reason, besides jealousy, that polyamory should necessarily be inequitable or unjust. Poly relationships seem to fail for the same reasons that monogamous ones do (albeit writ larger), and the people who claim they work for them tend to either say that jealousy isn't really a concern or that they have mechanisms (regular processing sessions is one I've seen a few times) to address potential jealousy before it can become an issue. Sometimes (often?) this all crashes and burns because people went 'aha, I don't need the master narrative!' but forgot to learn how to actually be in a relationship along the way.
(also you get to have sex with someone other than your partner without it necessarily causing trouble, so i'm sure that's a draw too)
kal-elk, May 12, 2014, 04:04:33 am
I'm sorry, but I'm not a big fan of third-wave feminism. As one of my good friends says, "Third-wave feminism is the same as postmodern leftism. A defeatist movement that made peace with capitalism." Third wave feminism, for all its talk of narratives, does little more than critique. I prefer radical second-wave stuff where they actually got arrested for stuff and beat people up. TERFs are terrible, however.
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A beating is the response to adultery. I cannot fathom why someone would decide at some point other than the beginning of the relationship to fuck other people unless they were already cheating. Custom dictates that if your female relative's boyfriend/husband cheats on her, you round up a group of male family members and beat him up, on her discretion. If my sister told me that she popped it to her boyfriend, I would open my Bible and show her the verses that condemn adultery. If you have sex with someone that isn't your significant other, that's adultery.
Smoking Crow, May 12, 2014, 12:01:25 pm
And I cannot fathom why you would sincerely think all this, but I'm willing to agree to disagree.
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Apparently this is a thing? I don't understand it. I'm a jealous bastard as it is, I don't need any competition. Another thing is the country mentality in me. If my younger sister told me that her boyfriend asked for an open relationship/polyamory, me and my dad would pack up and beat the shit out of this dude. Some people, however, love it and think it's the only way to treat your partner like an adult. What do you think? Is it good, bad or in between? Why would someone agree to it?
Smoking Crow, May 11, 2014, 09:22:35 pm
That's great for you? Maybe not so great for your sister, if she, you know, has a different perspective on how relationships might work then you, though. I mean, you saying that you'd beat up someone who suggested an alternative relationship structure makes me feel really uncomfortable, and I'm not even in a poly relationship (my partner and I both have too many relationship issues and no motivation to try it out.)
In my experience people who put in the work to make a poly thing work out are people who don't necessarily think the two-person structure is the only right way to have a relationship, enjoy being sexual and romantic with multiple people, and care enough about their partners to have multiple verbal, intense discussions to make sure that everyone in the relationship is getting out of it what they want to get out of it. Obviously, it doesn't always work and I've seen a ton of poly relationships crash and burn for different reasons-- but honestly it's about the same spread of issues I see in monogamous relationships.
If you're a jealous person, you don't have to be in a polyamourous relationship, but don't project your own personal hangups about relationships on everyone. And ffs, don'ts threaten violence over non-normative relationships, especially ones you're not in. I don't know your sister, and I'm sure she's not interested in a poly relationship, but acting super-macho and patriarchal as though she can't make up her own mind about a relationship that she wants to have definitely pings me in the not-good-situations-friends-have-been-in place.
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The thing we're heard about the most on the podcast relating to this is probably the same exact bs I saw several friends fall into doing. A lot of what I saw was inexperienced, and immature teens and younger who would go online and do the murry purry shit to the extreme and then 'fall in love' with their mate. Give it a few weeks or months and a third of the time another partner gets added on because the role play is soooo much hotter with a third person. Yes role play, because your polyamorous relationship is a long distance, rock solid bastion of integrity.
As for real life if you want to fuck around with two or three other people then have at it, its not my place to judge what or who you want to do. (Until you broadcast it all over the internet) For myself I don't really have a favorable experience with it and I do think that part of being in a committed relationship is keeping it 1 on 1 by default. If whoever I'm in a serious relationship with wants to add someone else the communication is the word. I don't think that starting with 3 is the best way to develop a serious relationship, its not wrong though. An seriously open relationship does not sound like something I'd ever be interested in.
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Cause they dig it, I guess. I don't need to get it. Personally it sounds like too much of a fucking hassle to me. I can barely manage my relationship with myself.