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Projects => The F Plus => Topic started by: Delcat on May 28, 2013, 11:39:01 pm

Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Delcat on May 28, 2013, 11:39:01 pm
So a friend of mine and former casual F+ fan listened to Angry Angry Hippos and was really upset by it.  "I think [the F+] are completely vile pieces of shit and I never want to hear about them again" upset.

Personally, I don't hear it.  I'm fat, I've been stigmatized for it, but I liked the episode a lot (except for the having-to-escape-through-a-window lady, since that seemed like someone who genuinely had a lot of self-esteem and anxiety problems and it was honestly sad).

This has been an ongoing argument for some time now, with my friend claiming the F+ has consistently had "extreme fat-shaming issues".  With the diet thread starting up, I figured this would be as good a time as any to ask: How do you guys feel about fat, honestly?

Please note that I'm not asking for a bias one way or the other.  I just feel that it's more proactive to directly ask people what their beliefs are then try to cobble them together from snark readings.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: chai tea latte on May 28, 2013, 11:40:39 pm
I've always thought the end bumper on that episode was a pretty good answer to this question, honestly.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Goose Goose Honk At Me Now on May 28, 2013, 11:53:05 pm
I would imagine that, like most of the episodes, their issue isn't with the thing people get angry about but the fact that they go Full Internet angry. And you never go Full Internet.

But I could be wrong.

(Also if your friend is up in arms about it being "consistently fat-shaming" then she clearly has no sense of humor because fatvoice is never not funny.)
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Delcat on May 28, 2013, 11:54:58 pm
I've always thought the end bumper on that episode was a pretty good answer to this question, honestly.
kal-elk, May 28, 2013, 11:40:39 pm

Me too, honestly, I'm just aggravated by this whole argument and figured it'd be simplest to ask for a direct answer.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: count_actuala on May 29, 2013, 12:03:58 am
Obviously you shouldn't be mean to someone just because they're overweight, but for me there's a line of absurdity beyond which it's ridiculous to expect anything other than jeers. That line is getting up at dawn to buy 18 donuts which you then woof down in one go.

ETA: To expand, you're ostensibly entitled to your personal health decisions, but don't expect people to not point out the blisteringly stupid ones. You can buy your basket of Twinkies and say fuck you to whoever points out you're trying to live off Twinkies, but it's equally their right to point out that you're killing yourself with yellow snack cakes.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: jack chick on May 29, 2013, 12:20:56 am
Hi there! I have not listened to the episode in question, nor did I read on it, but here are my thoughts.

This is a podcast in which we make fun of people. In all comedy, someone has to be the butt of the jokes. Oftentimes a lot of the most effective comedy is where the person telling jokes is the butt. Jeff Foxworthy, nature's most hilarious comedian, is a great example of this.

Now that I'm done baiting Citrus, we make fun of a lot of different groups of people. Some you may feel deserve it, some you may feel don't. But, in general, everyone gets their turn under the microscope. I recently read on something which prominently features someone with severe autism. In real life, this legitimately depresses me. I really dislike the feeling that there are folks that are disadvantaged. However, I can still find humor in the darkest of places. I'm sure that fat folks get put under the gun a bit more than other various groups (Autism for example). We can likely attribute this to two factors.

1) Commonality. How often do we (and by proxy, the average listener) encounter severely autistic people vs severely fat people?
2) Choice. Someone who is autistic is pretty fucked, but they don't have a choice in the matter, so there isn't really anything to condone/condemn. We cannot make the same claim for the vast majority of the overweight (unless you really want to get into a deep discussion about the pervasive efforts of marketing culture in the US and it's effect on weight gain). And like it or not, being fat is pretty much a choice (in most cases, obviously there are edge cases that we can ignore).

Speaking as a fat dude, I eat a lot of pizza and exercise very little. It's not really a mystery to me why I have weight issues. You should totally check out my video on the pizza roll challenge too. It's awesome!

I would say that we malign Juggalos quite a bit too. While less common, they're certainly making very bad decisions. MMFCLFL WOOP WOOP

Please apologize to your friend for me, while I was not involved in this particular incident (nor do I speak for the rest of the group here), it's bumming that someone would be hurt because of a hobby that I particularly enjoy. Alternately give me their info and I'll send an apology myself. That said, I think they're being pretty ridiculous and should grow a spleen (I heard from bunnybread that's what keeps you safe in MMA). If some nerds on the internet talking about not even you makes you upset, you're in for a pretty rough life.

Now everyone knows I'm a dummy, so I'm going to go back to blasting SATANIC SPEED METAL
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Sherlockian on May 29, 2013, 01:00:50 am
Obviously you shouldn't be mean to someone just because they're overweight, but for me there's a line of absurdity beyond which it's ridiculous to expect anything other than jeers. That line is getting up at dawn to buy 18 donuts which you then woof down in one go.

ETA: To expand, you're ostensibly entitled to your personal health decisions, but don't expect people to not point out the blisteringly stupid ones. You can buy your basket of Twinkies and say fuck you to whoever points out you're trying to live off Twinkies, but it's equally their right to point out that you're killing yourself with yellow snack cakes.
Juice Unlimited, May 29, 2013, 12:03:58 am

Except that while it's okay to make fun of someone who eats a lot, someone who has the opposite behavioral problem-- that is, extreme calorie restriction-- is treated with a certain amount of respect that precludes extreme ridicule.

I will note that I, personally, wince when the Ridiculists make off-the-cuff fat jokes, especially about people whose real faces we've never seen.  The equating of fat with unhealthy behaviors (that are unrelated to food) is fairly common in pop culture and leads to widespread bias in much the same way that other common media stereotypes can cause problems. (Fat people-- women in particular-- are less likely to be hired, and less likely to earn as much as their skinnier peers. Pervasive stereotypes and jokes about fat people being lazy and disgusting are not exactly conducive to a positive hiring experience if you're overweight.)

OTOH, I simply chose not to listen to the FA episode under the assumption that, as fat jokes make me uncomfortable, and it would be an episode about fat people, I was probably not going to be happy with the humor in that particular podcast.  Pick your battles.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: MISANDRY CANNON on May 29, 2013, 01:04:58 am

2) Choice. Someone who is autistic is pretty fucked, but they don't have a choice in the matter, so there isn't really anything to condone/condemn. We cannot make the same claim for the vast majority of the overweight (unless you really want to get into a deep discussion about the pervasive efforts of marketing culture in the US and it's effect on weight gain). And like it or not, being fat is pretty much a choice (in most cases, obviously there are edge cases that we can ignore).

jack-chick, May 29, 2013, 12:20:56 am

While I can agree with most of it, sometimes (not most of the time) being fat is an issue beyond someones control, most of the women in my family have hypothyroidism, which usually leads to weight gain, and there is nothing they can do about it. My aunt does more exercise in a week than I generally do in 4 months, and she is still overweight.

That being said, my aunt doesn't complain about her weight at all, she still does things, she's fairly productive, and she works to ensure that she doesn't get heavier. She doesn't victimize herself for the sake of blaming others, or at all. The subjects prodded at in Angry Angry Hippos, and their ilk, are deserving of the mockery and criticism they receive.

I'm not too worldly so my views are probably naive and ill informed. So take it with a grain of salt hehehehe.

Now everyone knows I'm a dummy, so I'm going to go back to blasting SATANIC SPEED METAL

You are such a plebeian. NSNOSDTBDM is the only genre anybody worth anything in metal plays anymore.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Delcat on May 29, 2013, 01:16:50 am
I will note that I, personally, wince when the Ridiculists make off-the-cuff fat jokes, especially about people whose real faces we've never seen.  The equating of fat with unhealthy behaviors (that are unrelated to food) is fairly common in pop culture and leads to widespread bias in much the same way that other common media stereotypes can cause problems. (Fat people-- women in particular-- are less likely to be hired, and less likely to earn as much as their skinnier peers. Pervasive stereotypes and jokes about fat people being lazy and disgusting are not exactly conducive to a positive hiring experience if you're overweight.)sherlockian, May 29, 2013, 01:00:50 am

Yeah, I'm actually actively listening to the episode again now and finding it worse than I remember.  I find it funny objectively, but there is a lot of misunderstanding about how fat works, and it's frustrating to hear "We don't know how to make fat people skinny" suggested as absolute idiocy.  Fat is as much genetics as it is diet and exercise, and once you are fat, it's hard as hell to not be fat.  Worse, that assumption causes people to write off fat people both in derogatory ways and, perhaps more importantly, in health.  I spent sixteen years being passed around from doctor to doctor being told I needed to exercise more and eat less because I was overweight before I was diagnosed with a condition that didn't let my enzymes process food properly, thus making me too fatigued to exercise and too hungry to avoid temptation.  I'm healthy now because I'm on medication that lets me actually process food, but I'm still fat, because...we don't know.  Despite my nightly blitzkrieg assault on the Pit, I'm active during the day, and I eat a reasonable diet.

That having been said, there are a lot of unhealthy, addictive attitudes in the episode, although I don't see eye-to-eye with my friend on some of them.  I think we agree on the Hispanic lazy Mexican people bit being worthy of a brisk beating.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: montrith on May 29, 2013, 01:24:59 am
I'm not a Ridiculist, but I'm just going to jump in here and say that Fplus actually helped me to be more in tune with my own body issues. Not going to lie, when I was a teen I was one of those "Omg you said something negative about my weight fatshaming you piece of shit". However, now that I'm older I understand there's a difference between people genuinely trying to help me make positive life choices and people mocking me just because they can. FAs are people who have not discovered there is a difference between those two groups. To them, everyone is an enemy who is trying to hurt their self-esteem. They've developed denial into an art where even massively unhealthy choices are applauded because the person is being "brave" and "standing up to themselves". They also have absolutely no sense of humor about themselves, nor do they realize that EVERYONE gets made fun of sometimes. These are the people that are made fun of "for being fat" in the Fplus episodes. It's not as if the Ridiculists would turn away in horror if they met a fat person who's generally a nice guy and fun to be around, nor would they bully anyone genuinely having a hard time because of their appearance. There is a big difference between "I can't go hot air ballooning, everyone is oppressing me!" and "Yeah, I guess I have a few extra pounds, but I'm cool with that and happy the way I am". An adult human being should be able to understand the difference between general goofing around and personal attacks. We have people here in the podcast who've had to listen to people tearing their fetish and/or fandom to shreds and yet they are still fans, because they are able to understand that there is a comical side to their interest. Just because the Ridiculists might find it amusing, it's not as if they have any special sort of animosity or ill-will towards their subject. At least, not if that subject isn't something inherently loathsome to most sensible people coughPUAscough.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: jack chick on May 29, 2013, 01:43:37 am

2) Choice. Someone who is autistic is pretty fucked, but they don't have a choice in the matter, so there isn't really anything to condone/condemn. We cannot make the same claim for the vast majority of the overweight (unless you really want to get into a deep discussion about the pervasive efforts of marketing culture in the US and it's effect on weight gain). And like it or not, being fat is pretty much a choice (in most cases, obviously there are edge cases that we can ignore).

jack-chick, May 29, 2013, 12:20:56 am

While I can agree with most of it, sometimes (not most of the time) being fat is an issue beyond someones control, most of the women in my family have hypothyroidism, which usually leads to weight gain, and there is nothing they can do about it. My aunt does more exercise in a week than I generally do in 4 months, and she is still overweight.

That being said, my aunt doesn't complain about her weight at all, she still does things, she's fairly productive, and she works to ensure that she doesn't get heavier. She doesn't victimize herself for the sake of blaming others, or at all. The subjects prodded at in Angry Angry Hippos, and their ilk, are deserving of the mockery and criticism they receive.

I'm not too worldly so my views are probably naive and ill informed. So take it with a grain of salt hehehehe.

Now everyone knows I'm a dummy, so I'm going to go back to blasting SATANIC SPEED METAL

You are such a plebeian. NSNOSDTBDM is the only genre anybody worth anything in metal plays anymore.
MicroMissles, May 29, 2013, 01:04:58 am

The hyperthyroidism & genetics issues are exactly why I mention edge cases. It's rare enough that we can discard it as not being a significant contributor to the greater overall issue. We don't go to the "obese because of genetic glandular issues" forum to dredge content, as all of us would find it pretty gross. Also, people with actual reasons for their issues don't generally create support forums to make excuses.

Anyone who follows trends in metal is a poser.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Delcat on May 29, 2013, 02:08:17 am
The hyperthyroidism & genetics issues are exactly why I mention edge cases. It's rare enough that we can discard it as not being a significant contributor to the greater overall issue. We don't go to the "obese because of genetic glandular issues" forum to dredge content, as all of us would find it pretty gross. Also, people with actual reasons for their issues don't generally create support forums to make excuses.jack-chick, May 29, 2013, 01:43:37 am

Actually, (http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/Obesity-largely-determined-by-genetics-says-study) you'd (http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/2/398.full) be (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/thin-parents-pass-on-skinny-genes-to-children-2365158.html) surprised. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2044434)

Sorry, I just get sick of this argument.  Those are general studies, but the condition I have affects 5-10% of women (http://www.pcosupport.org/what-is-pcos.php).  That's a minimum of one in twenty, which isn't exactly rare.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Sherlockian on May 29, 2013, 02:27:19 am

Actually, (http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/Obesity-largely-determined-by-genetics-says-study) you'd (http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/2/398.full) be (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/thin-parents-pass-on-skinny-genes-to-children-2365158.html) surprised. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2044434)

Sorry, I just get sick of this argument.  Those are general studies, but the condition I have affects 5-10% of women (http://www.pcosupport.org/what-is-pcos.php).  That's a minimum of one in twenty, which isn't exactly rare.
Delcat, May 29, 2013, 02:08:17 am

Which also doesn't touch the documented weight bias (http://virtualmentor.ama-assn.org/2010/04/jdsc1-1004.html) that's present in the health care industry. To find out if there's a medical complication that's causing you to gain weight, you have to have a doctor willing to consider fat as something more complicated than diet+exercise. That's not always easy to find.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: montrith on May 29, 2013, 02:40:46 am
The hyperthyroidism & genetics issues are exactly why I mention edge cases. It's rare enough that we can discard it as not being a significant contributor to the greater overall issue. We don't go to the "obese because of genetic glandular issues" forum to dredge content, as all of us would find it pretty gross. Also, people with actual reasons for their issues don't generally create support forums to make excuses.jack-chick, May 29, 2013, 01:43:37 am

Actually, (http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/Obesity-largely-determined-by-genetics-says-study) you'd (http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/2/398.full) be (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/thin-parents-pass-on-skinny-genes-to-children-2365158.html) surprised. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2044434)

Sorry, I just get sick of this argument.  Those are general studies, but the condition I have affects 5-10% of women (http://www.pcosupport.org/what-is-pcos.php).  That's a minimum of one in twenty, which isn't exactly rare.
Delcat, May 29, 2013, 02:08:17 am

Obesity may be determined by genetics, but until someone comes up with a similar study on being a whiny asshole I'm going to keep making fun of whiny assholes.

Seriously though, every single woman in my mother's side is overweight, so I have no problem believing there's genetics involved. However, you can't just blame genetics if you never exercise, eat greasy food and weigh 400 pounds. Alcoholism has genetic factors affecting it too, but it still doesn't excuse people from personal responsibility if they turn out a violent drunk. My sisters are still technically overweight, but because they take care of themselves they turn eyes everywhere they go. I know I will never be model thin, or pose for the cover of Sports Illustrated, but I'm damn sure that despite my unfortunate genetics I don't have to be obese. I don't approve FAs who tell people like me that even if they want to lose weight it's impossible and they should just give up now. Not everyone can be Heidi Klum, but that doesn't mean I can't aspire to Not Fat Albert.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Delcat on May 29, 2013, 02:50:39 am
Obesity may be determined by genetics, but until someone comes up with a similar study on being a whiny asshole I'm going to keep making fun of whiny assholes.
montrith, May 29, 2013, 02:40:46 am

A breakthrough! (https://twitter.com/CoolBabyRat/status/297550091651264512)  No wait, false alarm.  Proceed.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: chai tea latte on May 29, 2013, 04:22:21 am

Except that while it's okay to make fun of someone who eats a lot, someone who has the opposite behavioral problem-- that is, extreme calorie restriction-- is treated with a certain amount of respect that precludes extreme ridicule.
sherlockian, May 29, 2013, 01:00:50 am

It's...really not, though. Being thin, whatever, but "extreme calorie restriction" (how're you defining this one, by the by? 500 calories/day? Fifty?) isn't actually all that glamorous either. I'm not trying to equate the consequences of being fat and not eating, but since you did specify extreme restriction...it's not like once you start wasting away in public, people throw rose petals at your feet. When you're ill, really ill (which you are if you can go through with long-term "extreme" restriction), your body is still public property to be monster cockyzed, prodded, discussed. There's no respect there, just suspicion and disgust.

I'm not sure if this is the right thread in which to elaborate further, and I'm also not sure I can go ahead and find you a ton of studies to corroborate what I'm trying to say. But extreme restriction really isn't the same thing as being thin, and it's definitely not a privileged position to hold. Your skin goes grey, your hair falls out, you shiver all the time, you pass out more often than not, you're so weak sometimes it takes a few seconds after standing up for your vision to work, and you've got distrust of other people and self-hatred both massive enough to land you in a psych ward on their own! This is assuming you don't get heart/liver/brain damage from it.

Extreme calorie restriction is really bad for you.

Ironically, the original tenet of fat acceptance (rather than fat activism)--that people should be encouraged to pursue healthy bodies, no matter what they look like--is one that would probably decrease the stigma of restrictive eating disorders. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be quite the focus of the movement anymore, and I'm not sure how I feel about it. Lately, I see people interpret HAES (health at every size) as the idea that people, no matter what they weigh, can still be healthy, rather than that people, no matter what they weigh, should still have options open to them to become healthy, and I'm really not a fan.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: PurpleXVI on May 29, 2013, 05:22:21 am
The thing is, to my mind, that it's not so much an episode about mocking or shaming fat people. It's about mocking the fat people who insist, in the face of all evidence, that being fat is perfect or never a problem. I mean, I know several overweight people who are great people, and part of that is that they're not on some sort of crusade to make being overweight acceptable.

The F+ is rarely about just making fun of people for being who they are, it's more about making fun of those people who insist that who they are is the most perfect thing in reality and engage in some sort of attempt to paint everyone else as the freaks. Like the waifu guys? Who gives a shit if someone wants to marry Aeris or Pinkie Pie or Superman? If that makes it happy, let them be happy. The hilarity starts popping up when they begin ranting about how real women are somehow the inferior, sick choice.

Asexuals? Fine, if you don't get boners, you don't get boners, we don't have a fight there. But once you start ranting about how people with functional libidos are somehow CRAZED SEX-BEASTS and how you're SO GLAD YOU'RE NOT ONE OF THE NORMOS, then we have a recipe for hilarity.

What's being made fun of is not the condition or belief that are at the core of any given episode, it's the monumental piles of hubris and willfully ignoring reality.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Acierocolotl on May 29, 2013, 05:55:45 am
You know, I was trying to distill down ten paragraphs of nonsense but I found Purple's gone and done it for me.  So let me give you the executive summary:  Our comedy isn't the issue itself, but the delusions surrounding it.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: count_actuala on May 29, 2013, 09:31:39 am
I don't approve FAs who tell people like me that even if they want to lose weight it's impossible and they should just give up now. Not everyone can be Heidi Klum, but that doesn't mean I can't aspire to Not Fat Albert.
montrith, May 29, 2013, 02:40:46 am
Yarp. I'm overweight in part due to a lot of chilhood neglect and poverty, but I decide what I eat now, goddammit, and what I eat is usuall real food! I also legitimately enjoy picking things up and putting them back down!
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Isfahan on May 29, 2013, 10:01:29 am
MAN THIS PODCAST WAS FUNNY UNTIL IT SOUNDED LIKE IT WAS MAKING FUN OF ME
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Goose Goose Honk At Me Now on May 29, 2013, 10:24:36 am
MAN THIS PODCAST WAS FUNNY UNTIL IT SOUNDED LIKE IT WAS MAKING FUN OF ME
Isfahan, May 29, 2013, 10:01:29 am
I almost had this reaction to the Sherlock episode until I realized, "Wait a second, these people are gross and fetishizing gross things in a gross way. I'm just a fan with opinions I mostly keep to myself."

Also I'm going to go out on another limb and posit that the people who are loudest about fat acceptance are probably the most miserable about their own body image and trying to find an outlet for their pain that takes responsibility for the problem off their own shoulders.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Alpha Starsquatch on May 29, 2013, 10:38:20 am
How To Tell If the F+ Is Making Fun of You Personally

Are you:

_completely unsocialized
_a weird pervert who wants everybody to know what you maturbate to
_a horrible writer
_someone who is offended by facts and reality
_a complete moron
_a lunatic

If you answered no to all of these questions, then chances are the F+ is not making fun of you. I think this is a rule that transcends all fandoms and identities.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: jack chick on May 29, 2013, 01:16:38 pm
I should add, Portaxx & I tried to make multiple anorexia/thinspiration episodes, but the content just isn't that funny.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: chai tea latte on May 29, 2013, 01:31:14 pm
I should add, Portaxx & I tried to make multiple anorexia/thinspiration episodes, but the content just isn't that funny.
jack-chick, May 29, 2013, 01:16:38 pm
Yeah, once you get past the iced butter diet (http://ballp.it/index.php?topic=150.msg7859#msg7859) it's basically just shitty teenage xanga poetry and a suicide cult. Probably not great reading.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Keetah Spacecat on May 30, 2013, 04:35:23 pm
Personally I feel like the episode was doing what it always does. Make fun of insane people. If you are an overweight person and you get up, go to work, cook dinner, read a book, do your laundry ect, WITHOUT any crazy, they are NOT making fun of you. They are making fun of the bathshit crazy idea that FA people HONESTLY THINK, THAT FAT PEOPLE FACE THE SAME OPPRESSION AS MINORITY AND GLTBQ GROUPS. Especially the white American women with internet access who think they have it rough.

I saw a post on This Is Thin Privilege where they were screaming that they were losing their 'rights' to 'cute clothing' and 'having men be sexually attracted to them and NOT be chubby chasers'. Those are the types of crazy they are making fun of. Hell, the person who runs the blog hates thin people and have even stated that 1.If you are starving you still have 'thin privilege' and 2. You only become anorexic/bulimic because of your internalized 'fatphobia', not because of self esteem issues and 3. If you're thin nothing bad has ever happened to you ever.

If you are a good person who just happens to be overweight, you should not have to be bullied or be ashamed of your body. Hell I was raised mostly by my grandmother who is fat, and I grew up kinda feeling like fat = warm positive people so I dunno if that's odd or not.

Me I have the opposite problem where I lose weight badly enough that sometimes my ribcage burns and I faint and nearly break my neck on stairs. Pretty much I have a problem where I can't get nutrients from food well so pretty much I could eat a plate of food but only have like a third of it actually count for anything. I don't want to ask how to gain weight in the Weight thread cause I don't think that's really the place for that :(
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Delcat on May 30, 2013, 08:23:08 pm

Except that while it's okay to make fun of someone who eats a lot, someone who has the opposite behavioral problem-- that is, extreme calorie restriction-- is treated with a certain amount of respect that precludes extreme ridicule.
sherlockian, May 29, 2013, 01:00:50 am

It's...really not, though. Being thin, whatever, but "extreme calorie restriction" (how're you defining this one, by the by? 500 calories/day? Fifty?) isn't actually all that glamorous either. I'm not trying to equate the consequences of being fat and not eating, but since you did specify extreme restriction...it's not like once you start wasting away in public, people throw rose petals at your feet. When you're ill, really ill (which you are if you can go through with long-term "extreme" restriction), your body is still public property to be monster cockyzed, prodded, discussed. There's no respect there, just suspicion and disgust. kal-elk, May 29, 2013, 04:22:21 am

I should add, Portaxx & I tried to make multiple anorexia/thinspiration episodes, but the content just isn't that funny.
jack-chick, May 29, 2013, 01:16:38 pm
Yeah, once you get past the iced butter diet (http://ballp.it/index.php?topic=150.msg7859#msg7859) it's basically just shitty teenage xanga poetry and a suicide cult. Probably not great reading.
kal-elk, May 29, 2013, 01:31:14 pm

I think if I have a sticking point, it's in this area.  Pro-ana/mia stuff isn't funny, because it isn't glamorous and it isn't safe.  My mother graduated college weighing less than a hundred pounds, and if she hadn't gotten help, I probably wouldn't be here today.  People really don't make off-the-cuff anorexia jokes because dude, there are kids dyin' from that.

But the opposite weight scale (derp) isn't afforded the same thing.  Someone claiming that they're healthy by eating eighteen doughnuts at a go instead of attending an event they'd been planning for for months isn't any less deluded or self-harming than someone claiming that they're healthy by getting through college classes on a diet of coffee and uppers.  So why is one fair game for casual humor when the other isn't?

This is honestly something I've been trying to figure out for a long time.  My mom spent half her life barely alive because of underconsumption and overexcercise, while my father has been digging his own grave through a terrible diet and sedentary lifestyle for years and is accelerating in the process.  One I've always viewed with sympathy, the other I've always viewed with disgust.  I am biased because my father is, well, a terrible person, but I know that's not a fair excuse.

I also have a friend with terrible arthritis, to the point that she hasn't been pain-free in years and has to use a cane, or a walker if it gets bad, which it often does.  Largely because of this, it's next to impossible for her to exercise and improve her weight.  I know her and her struggles with pain and health personally, so I don't stigmatize her when she uses a cart instead of a walker at the supermarket, because I know she's doing her best and is in too much pain to do otherwise, but I also know that most of the people who see her are going to assume she's a "fatty on a Rascal" who's going to go straight from shopping to buy fast food.  It troubles me to see that, especially since I used to view fat people the same way.

tl;dr I guess thinking about this stuff is making me face a lot of my own biases, so the ep hits pretty close to home for me.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: PurpleXVI on May 30, 2013, 08:43:42 pm
Because pro-Ana stuff is composed entirely of hideous, horrifying self-loathing of people's own bodies, it's a clear illness and very depressing. While pro-Fat stuff is composed more of aggression towards others, hubris.

This is the thing, HUBRIS, ARROGANCE, this is where the humour is. It's not just funny watching someone be wrong(and if their being wrong is actually hurting themselves or others, it can be quite depressing. Unless we're talking in a slapstick manner of "hurting" like someone trips over his dragon dildo and falls face first into a cake.), it's funny watching someone be wrong when they're absolutely convinced that they, and only they, are ever in the right.

No one here is making fun of your friend, unless your friend starts making internet posts about how it's discrimination if someone doesn't want to bang her for being overweight or something of that sort.

tl;dr you're missing the goddamn point, over and over.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Delcat on May 30, 2013, 11:41:36 pm
tl;dr you're missing the goddamn point, over and over.
PurpleXVI, May 30, 2013, 08:43:42 pm

Yup, that's why I keep asking questions so I can find it.

I think I've got a handle on it now.  I don't entirely agree with either party, but I have a better understanding of both stances.  Thank you for your open opinions.  Although I must say...

Unless we're talking in a slapstick manner of "hurting" like someone trips over his dragon dildo and falls face first into a cake.PurpleXVI, May 30, 2013, 08:43:42 pm

...putting that out there makes me want this to actually happen and it to be read so bad that I think it's a form of oppression.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: KingKalamari on May 31, 2013, 06:30:54 pm
My general thought on the matter is that I can definitely agree that society as a whole has a very narrow and screwed up concept of body image and that the weight range people can be happy and healthy at is a lot more diverse than what a lot of people think it is. However I don't feel that the FA people in that episode were concerned with being happy and healthy: When you start getting into a weight range where it begins to negatively affect your health (Whether from being too heavy or too thin) then I don't think that society's response should be to enable that.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Bobalay on May 31, 2013, 09:51:46 pm
I'm a fat guy, and I know it's by genetics.  Most of my direct living relatives are walking balloons no matter what their diet.  One of my favorite foods is zucchini-and-tomato casserole, and I've still got a front-backpack.  I've even talked to friends about fat acceptance and social stereotypes and all that.

But when someone proudly walks around eating eighteen goddamn doughnuts, then maybe genetics doesn't play a part in how fat they are.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Runic on June 01, 2013, 08:40:03 am
To be fair, she did say they were mini-doughnuts.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: icarus on June 01, 2013, 08:47:05 am
son i can't even eat three mini donuts without wanting to yark
too much goddamn fat and sugar all in one shot
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: montrith on June 01, 2013, 11:01:20 am
Apparently I'm exactly the same height as the average male. I tried to read further than that part in the article, but I was distracted by the horrible. horrible headlines linking to other news. These are so bad they barely even qualify as puns.

The Force is with her: Florence Welch is 'being considered for a role in new Star Wars trilogy'

Ringing the changes! Kristen Bell reveals motherhood is exceeding her wildest dreams

Man (and woman) United! Footballer Jonny Evans weds MUTV presenter Helen McConnell back home in Northern Ireland

'Cara cara cara chameleon'! Ms Delevingne heads to the pub in funky personalised fluro T-shirt as she steps out make-up free

EDIT: There was a post here. It's gone now.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Alpha Starsquatch on June 01, 2013, 11:14:41 am
Yeah, I deleted it because I figured in retrospect that it was still kind of off topic, since it didn't have to do with fat activists.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Delcat on June 02, 2013, 05:21:40 am
son i can't even eat three mini donuts without wanting to yark
too much goddamn fat and sugar all in one shot
icarus, June 01, 2013, 08:47:05 am

icarus you can't eat ANYTHING without wanting to yark

But I have always wondered how mini- those mini-doughnuts were.  There's a stall here in not-Seattle that does some killer mini-doughnuts that are about bite-sized, and I think my sister and I might have split eighteen over the course of a day once (unless it was an even dozen, I honestly can't remember), but my upper limit at one go would be three or four.  They are pretty seriously loaded and best consumed slowly while walking about the park.

ETA: and lord they are so good
sorry full disclosure had to say it but they're not event-missing good
although they are more or less an annual-consumption item
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Keetah Spacecat on June 02, 2013, 11:31:47 am
I can barely eat donuts anymore, cause my teeth are really really sensitive to sugar. So I have to be careful eating sweets or it feels like someone's slamming a drill bit into my teeth.

I've been trolling though the This is Thin Privilege blog and they honest to god now have a 'stolen childhood' tag for people that were put on diets as a kid.

They also now are talking about the 'Thin Privilege Spectrum' because somehow you can still be fat and have thin privilege (whom they call 'smaller fats') and the only person to not have it is literally the fattest person in the world. So not only do they hate thin people, they hate other fat people too!
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: montrith on June 02, 2013, 11:45:06 am
They also now are talking about the 'Thin Privilege Spectrum' because somehow you can still be fat and have thin privilege (whom they call 'smaller fats') and the only person to not have it is literally the fattest person in the world. So not only do they hate thin people, they hate other fat people too!

See, this is why Oppression Olympics are just like the real Olympics. Sooner or later someone is going to come and one-up you by being more oppressed than you are, so you have to constantly be on your toes and ready to identify new levels of oppression.

As for the mini donuts, they might not be that big, but 18 at 7 am in the morning? That's your whole day's worth of calories right there.
Title: Weighing in on Fat Acceptance: A question for the Ridiculists
Post by: Delcat on June 02, 2013, 11:52:27 am
They also now are talking about the 'Thin Privilege Spectrum' because somehow you can still be fat and have thin privilege (whom they call 'smaller fats') and the only person to not have it is literally the fattest person in the world. So not only do they hate thin people, they hate other fat people too!

See, this is why Oppression Olympics are just like the real Olympics. Sooner or later someone is going to come and one-up you by being more oppressed than you are, so you have to constantly be on your toes and ready to identify new levels of oppression. montrith, June 02, 2013, 11:45:06 am

(http://youdamnkid.keenspot.com/comics/ydk19990305.gif)

This has always reflected my opinion on SJ pissing contests pretty succinctly.