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Topic: 193: The Thing You Like In Pain  (Read 13855 times)

Adam Bozarth

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193: The Thing You Like In Pain #30
Sometimes you gaze into the abyss, and the abyss is a huge fan.
Boots Raingear Victor Laszlo Positronic Afraid of Audio Baldr Caroline Is It Normal this Disgusting Giant Sherman Tank Liatai Shigan strifeheart Maxine Headroom STOG DetectiveSlowpoke McMillan and Waifu Really_Quite_Nice

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193: The Thing You Like In Pain #31

(Does this need a nsfw tag? Or a nsfWOAH tag?)
Positronic, November 09, 2015, 08:48:06 pm

Damn, I wish I could reassign my bulb. You are a god and I will now worship you.

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193: The Thing You Like In Pain #32
Of all the tumblr speak I've run into, "fave" must be one of those I hate the most.

ETA: Lemon, how about a "Prime Directive Breach" tag? Has this happened before?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 03:17:39 pm by Ambious »

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193: The Thing You Like In Pain #33
Woooo pronoun fight in the comments what fun

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193: The Thing You Like In Pain #34
Woooo pronoun fight in the comments what fun
goombapolice, November 10, 2015, 07:48:40 pm

Hey, if they don't get self-righteous on the internet about trivial shit they don't get to pat themselves on the back about how progressive and sensitive and awesome they are.

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193: The Thing You Like In Pain #35
Woooo pronoun fight in the comments what fun
goombapolice, November 10, 2015, 07:48:40 pm

Hey, if they don't get self-righteous on the internet about trivial shit they don't get to pat themselves on the back about how progressive and sensitive and awesome they are.
Sherman Tank, November 10, 2015, 09:17:07 pm

That's a shitty attitude IMO. Maybe it's trivial to you but it isn't to everyone. I liked this episode but that joke left a bad taste in my mouth
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193: The Thing You Like In Pain #36
ETA: Lemon, how about a "Prime Directive Breach" tag? Has this happened before?
Ambious, November 10, 2015, 03:12:30 pm

I don't think it's a Prime Directive Breach. It's possible that someone who follows the blog and also likes the F+ let the admin know.

And, IIRC, other exhibits have found out about episodes before in one way or another.

Woooo pronoun fight in the comments what fun
goombapolice, November 10, 2015, 07:48:40 pm

Hey, if they don't get self-righteous on the internet about trivial shit they don't get to pat themselves on the back about how progressive and sensitive and awesome they are.
Sherman Tank, November 10, 2015, 09:17:07 pm

That's a shitty attitude IMO. Maybe it's trivial to you but it isn't to everyone. I liked this episode but that joke left a bad taste in my mouth
fruithag, November 11, 2015, 01:03:50 am

Yeah, same.

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193: The Thing You Like In Pain #37
It's amazing that it took me this long but this is it. This is the episode that made me no longer like people.

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193: The Thing You Like In Pain #38
Wasn't that joke obviously about people on tumblr who make up genders just because that makes them feel special? Calling that transphobic is like saying that it's racist to make fun of rich, suburban white guys who act like Tupac, imo.

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193: The Thing You Like In Pain #39
Wasn't that joke obviously about people on tumblr who make up genders just because that makes them feel special? Calling that transphobic is like saying that it's racist to make fun of rich, suburban white guys who act like Tupac, imo.
FattyBoBatty, November 11, 2015, 11:45:44 am
these identities are often exploratory and transitive spaces for young queers coming to terms with themselves so it's more the level of gleeful malice involved in the comment imo. Many trans activists agree that the appropriate response to someone correcting you on a misidentified gender/pronoun set is to accept at face value the things you're being told. Whether or not I personally think someone identifying as [atypical gender identity] is a valid or appropriate identity, it isn't my place to enforce that for others. Obviously there's a line, and some identities are in fact harmful or false pretenses, and someone, somewhere should be concerned about it, but I don't have to if it isn't important to me. Lemon's push back against third-person singular 'they' also indicates either a lack of familiarity with discourse around trans inclusivity or i guess linguistic (and gender) prescriptivism?

The joke made me very uncomfortable because often the F Plus has approached these niche SJ-ancillary spaces from a place of understanding and respect and it implied that this respect and understanding was conditional on the acceptability of a trans person's non-binary gender.
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193: The Thing You Like In Pain #40
Alright, I was leaving it alone in the comments, but now that it's made it's way onto ballp.it, let's start a brief and non-reductive dialogue1 about this:

Inre: "I'll call you by the pronoun you were born as", I stand by that joke. I still think it's funny. The premise is, in response to a piece of content that was particularly atrocious and with the treatment of all of Tumblr as a single entity responsible for that bit of content, I'm going to issue the very worst punishment I can think of, which is to use that one person's birth pronoun. Other jokes I've done can be at times unnecessarily tasteless or aggressive, this one I'm still happy with.

The negative reaction to this seems, to me, to imply that the statement being made is that people using pronouns other than the one they were born as is me making a statement that this sort of behavior is silly or bad, or that it comes from a position of thinking trans* people are "less than", which is wrong in a way that doesn't need to get explained here.

There's also the connotation that this joke minimizes the struggle of trans* people by saying it could just get revoked if they do something wrong. Which, yeah, that's exactly why I'm happy with the joke. Does a person calling another person the wrong gender pronoun invalidate the gender identity that person had previously discovered for themselves? Jesus, it shouldn't! That's a whole lot of power to imbue on another person.

What I'm saying is, if you think a comment in the current episode identifies me as transphobic, that's incorrect. If you think one or more of the jokes is in itself transphobic, I disagree on that point.

I will back off on the "they" argument however, since I realize that what I'd like is the perfect operational pronoun that doesn't exist, and "they" is, while not perfect, more correct and agreed-upon than anything else and therefore it's fine.

1: Come on internet, we can do this.
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193: The Thing You Like In Pain #41
nre: "I'll call you by the pronoun you were born as", I stand by that joke. I still think it's funny. The premise is, in response to a piece of content that was particularly atrocious and with the treatment of all of Tumblr as a single entity responsible for that bit of content, I'm going to issue the very worst punishment I can think of, which is to use that one person's birth pronoun. Other jokes I've done can be at times unnecessarily tasteless or aggressive, this one I'm still happy with.
Lemon, November 11, 2015, 02:22:53 pm

... Not to get personal, but that "joke" was the exact same thing my parents say to invalidate my gender.

Maybe you're happy with it, but I physically flinched when it was said. I knew and know what the foundation of the joke was. That doesn't stop it from being something that's been literally said to me (and other trans friends) before and therefore not just a "tasteless" joke, but a hurtful one.

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193: The Thing You Like In Pain #42
Yea that felt like a joke that was 100% meant without malice or anything, but still had a lot of baggage for people that actually, ya know, have to explain to people constantly that no they'd like to be called by the right pronoun. The problem is despite how it feels on the internet at times, like 90% are just perfectly normal people and not 'uh excuse me I identify as bunkin please use bunself to address me'. Like, those people are stupid as shit, but functionally speaking they might as well not actually exist except online, but people who do have legitimate problems getting their gender identity recognized do exist in the real world.

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193: The Thing You Like In Pain #43
So it's weird that an episode about super duper gross fanfiction led us here, huh? Sometimes I expect backlash and it doesn't happen. This one came as a surprise.

Though I will say I've got a little bit better understanding of where it comes from. When you're coming from a place where you're trying to figure out your own identity and people around you are hesitant to adjust to that identity, it's natural that a person will end up being a little raw and jokes that come close to the subject cut a little deeper than they probably should. I'm getting that, and I'd also recognize that "just don't be so fucking sensitive" is as unhelpful as "Well just stop being depressed if you don't wanna be." I get that, I've got a clearer picture of the nerve I struck.

But these kinds of issues stem from Identity Politics, which is personal by definition, and that makes it sensitive, undefinable, and largely irrelevant.The struggles a person has in one's own life are their own crosses to bear. Other people should respect that to a certain extent, but respect is not the same as caring. The idea of everyone on Tumblr broadcasting their own unique little pronoun that they chose for themselves is silly, and goes beyond the bounds of what it means to be a person in a world with 7 billion more of you.
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« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 11:31:42 pm by Lemon »

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193: The Thing You Like In Pain #44
I'm a transwoman and I find the way that so many other trans people act so oversensitive and tumblry deeply distressing, can you please stop? It makes me literally flinch. If you hear someone saying a joke and it makes you flinch, you need therapy and treatment, not for everyone to change the world for you.

 I eagerly await hearing about my internalized transphobia or how I'm clearly faking.